Scaffolders Study Group

goodfella

As I mentioned in a previous Post the coupling of Practical Scaffolding Experiance and the Theoretical knowledge of how to operate CAD software is not beyond the understanding of a Scaffolder.

As you have observed the gray area is the verification of the Technical Data, Stress Forces, Applied Loads, ect. Most of the software available computes the Data for you---you put in the Configuration, Permutation, Correlation of the Structure and the software does the rest. ( pity yi cana yet software to erect it to )

A few years ago I approached Aberdeen College inquiring if they would consider running a CAD Course for Scaffold Structures to include Modular Systems and Tube and Fittings, the best they could do was to offer either Mechanical or Structural Engineering, HNC, HND.

Perhaps, this is an area for further debate/discussion ?

Perhaps we could approach the Scaffold CAD software providers and ask if they could donate Demo Disks, ect---this could promote their Product and we could get Tuition, it a 2 way street, ain't no such thing as a free lunch eh ;)

whats your thoughts on that ?
 
cads

Aye Gazza
The lass from 'Smart scaffolder' was on the phone to me in NOV, special offer on, CADS smart scaffolder, just with the drawing capability, complying with TG20:08 £7000,00 plus a additional £200 for annual updates, cheap at half the cost, doing your own designs instead of getting ripped off. All the HSE are looking for is a paper trail so they can correllate evidence if the proverbial sh1t hits the fan.
Paddy
 
Paddy

Thanks for the info M8---aye, Smart Scaff sent me a Demo Disc for appraisal and feed back a while ago, do you think it would be worth contacting them for some free bees for the Lads ?

By the Way Paddy, thanks for stepping up to the plate and taking on the position of Course Co-ordinate within the Scaffolders Study Group, it's good to be working together once more M8.

Garry...
 
at the end of the day ,, you nailed it ,,, its all about passin the buck ,,, if they assess the danger and you dont adhere to it 100 per cent then ur fucked ..... they have it in black and whie ,,, diminished responsibility ,,, and theres not too many fuckers that would be like me and fear swearin on the Bible and then tellin lies ,,, to save their owwn stinkin arse ,,, but again instead of trainin the good men on the ground they have all these middle men , union men , safety men and the rest , instead of makin the companies responsible for trainin in these respects and inforcin it ,, they sit back and add the taxes ,, if u will to the ordinary people ,,, scotch , Irish and the northern english :mad:
 
gary good thinking just fired an e mail of to cads smart scaff asking them to have a look at forum see if they can contribute anything asked maybe they could organise some sort ot tutorial;open day type of affair familiurise scaffs with product maybe they can clear up grey area of legality of who is qualified to design
 
goodfella

like your pro-active stance M8---make them an offer they cant refuse ;)

Is all good publicity for them--- if they dont play ball we go to strike alpha, they are a Family orientated Firm---the father is a Scaff and the Son generates the software.

The thing is who ever is willing to donate/contribute the more likely that is the Firm that the Scaffs will go to Buy the Product.

Like I said, ain't no such thing as a free lunch ;)

Lets see what they offer

Garry...
 
Scaffolding Torque Aided Regulating Spanner

To the Forum

A Pro-active Strategy to comply with B.S. 1139 Metal Scaffolds Part 2 1982 : Material and Design 5.1.3.6. " Torque Values "

I have prepared a Breif Introduction Document in support of introducing and incorporating a Torque Regulating Mechanism within the standard Scaffolding Spanner.

In the interest of collating a general consensus of opinion, I invite Forum Members for any feed back comment.

As the Document is too large to attach to this post, any interested parties should P.M. me with their e-mail address and I shall forward a copy for their perusal.

ALL feed back comments on this subject should be directed to the Scaffolders Study Group, where a new thread will be opened to discuss and debate the advantages and indeed perceived disadvantages of Torque Regulating.

Garry...
 
Document Library

Hi Guys
This is a response to a message i sent to sf admin yesterday.
: Document Library

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Paddy

Yes I can certainly setup a "document library" for the files in question.

At the moment the pc that has the forum software on it is in for repair.

I cannot directly access the forums storage space until I get it back which could be another couple of weeks.

If you could remind me in a week or so, and as soon as I gain access I will set something up.

Regards

SF Admin



Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy carr
Hi SF Admin
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you's all for a brilliant conception regarding the 'Scaffolders forum'. Your help and cooperation in setting up the 'Study group' for us is fantastic as it shows the unity within the scaffolding community.

Myself in collaberation with Garry Addams, founder members of the study group, were wondering (cap in hand) on the feasability of a Document library, wheras individuals documents, powerpoints that were not a infringement to copyright or plaigarism could be stored, and accessed by other members of the study group?

These documents in turn would in no doubt be processed by your moderating staff, to ensure no infringements were included.

I realise your space is ltd, and i dont know myself of the implications I.E. technology problems,site space or fiscal complications that would incur this creation of a Doc library.

I look forward to your response albeit favourable or not thank you for everything.

Paddy, Garry and the rest at 'Study group'

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

sf admin
Thank you for your swift response, and thanks for all you have done for us.
 
Paddy

Nice one M8---another big step forward---in readiness for the opening of the Study Group library, would those who have documents to donate please list them on the Scaffolders Study Group Forum.

Garry...
 
british standards

got BS EN12811-1:2003 see if i can get it onto file and posted [bunch of plants for our lass] have to see if copyright permits no reply from cads smartscaff yet will give them another push
 
paddy carr said:
Hi Lads.
Regarding pdf docs, e-mail them to each other for now, till our very learned brother puts his head above the parapet.
Garry i will send you TG20:08 will have to do it off my lap top, this pile of crap is working itself again.
P.S information of TUC courses posted on study group forum

Regards
Paddy
Click to expand...

paddy, is there any chance you could send me the TG20:08,would appreciate very mich.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

we looked into this software, but too be honest it was a lot of outlay for a small firm like us at the moment, but the time saving is obvious. well done guys for trying to get demos etc, this is where this forum will come of age to all who invest in it.
 
Phil McCree said:
Hey Mate, it's better than the one's I've got. My Advanced training notes say that the 'single' top hand rail has to be a maximum of 740mm gap to the toe board. Don't think I can get away with that, even out here, lol..!!!

When I get home mate I'll contact you and obviously return the favor with any H&S paraphernalia I can send your way.

Cheers,
Phil.
Click to expand...

Eh? I thought it was 740 and 950? 950 top 740 bottom. Been a while since I did my course so could be wrong. It was different when i worked on Dublin Airport though, think it was a little higher.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

Where is the scaffolders study group? Call me thick but I can't find it lol
 
VLL Boy

extream left hand side---click user CP---then click on Social Groups

P.S. LOL my t^ts off with the UTube
 
VancouverLeedsLondonBoy said:
Eh? I thought it was 740 and 950? 950 top 740 bottom. Been a while since I did my course so could be wrong. It was different when i worked on Dublin Airport though, think it was a little higher.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

Where is the scaffolders study group? Call me thick but I can't find it lol
Click to expand...

VLLB,

The maximum gap is from is from rail to toe board, and it was actually 760mm, I was twenty mill' out! Ye olde scaffolding notes state: single rail at min height 920mm and max height 1.15m, toe board min 150mm height.

What year did double rail become mandatory? can't remember, was it 1996? Any takers...?
 
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Phil

Got to put my hands up to that one Phil.

But, ye it must have been circa 1996---cos I seem to remember that it was enforce when I was at night school for the NEBOSH---but the exact date is dooin mi bow in :nuts:---you'v started something now, I wina get peace until I find oot the precise date---Im away to dust down my old notes.

To expand on your theme of handrails---what dimensions are you working to for the Offshore Triple Hand Rail ?. I have a few of Offshore Procedures (Service Company's, In-House No Names or Pack Drill )one of which stipulates; Min =, hight from working platform to Top Hand Rail = 1.0 m, Max Hand Rail Centerers (3) at 0.4m---just be interesting to compare notes ;)

garry...
 
My two-penneth..!!!

Garry,

So would this be considered my case study?

Dredging the memory banks here, but I have a recollection of being sent around all existing jobs by SGB and adding a second rail. Now I'm almost certain that was '96 because I remember losing out on a few price-work jobs owing to this. The date of enforcement, I am not so sure but the one thing I can categorically remember is that was the year that SGB enforced it. Saying that, they were the industry leader at that time and were renowned for being pro-active with regulations, so it could have possibly been later?

As for Nigeria, well it's still double 'so sayeth the good book' but I enforced a minimum of treble out here and have had it written into our Offshore Projects Group procedures. I still remain with an average height of 1.15m and make them space the rails out at 225mm (250mm) max. Based on a 338mm toe board of course.

When we first arrived in country, almost every Scaffolder used double rail and for some reason unbeknown to us, they used to place the bottom rail about 50mm above the toe board. That took a long time to cultivate them into our way of thinking, so eventually I had treble rail enforced as a mandatory procedure so we could eliminate this. It works very though and we've had a good response from all our contractors.

Calling PW: care to reiterate on the double rail question mate?

Cheers,
Phil.
 
Phil

Although Hand Rail dimensions are a Major consideration, I am sure that you have more complex Case Studies on your desk. However, to continue on the Theme---I agree with the 1.15 H and 250 spacing,

The 1m H which is stipulated in the Service Companies Specific procedures were devised by NON-Scaffolders thus--- if the Service Company had taken the time to consult Scaffolding Project Managers, they would have been informed that as part of the Method of Erecting the Hand Rail the Stabila or the Spanner is used to determine the spacings between the rails. Needless to say common séance prevailed and the Scaffs erected the rails using the Stabila hight. BUT, it just shows you some of these Specific Procedures are being devised by people with little or no idea of the esoteric ways of the Scaffolders.

Given that a Commissioned Scaffold structure is a integral part of the Installation and the Installations Hand Rails are considerably higher than the Scaffold Hand Rail, I would consider a 1m High Hand Rail inadequate. I would have thought that Operatives working on a Scaffold would be entitled to the same degree of protection as those working on the walkways and deck ?

Garry...
 
Garry,

Yeah you're right I suppose, my entire desk is a hive of complexity at the moment. It's job justification time out here as we are experiencing yet another annual 'expatriate cleansing' quota and I have to keep my team of lads gainfully employed. This 75%-25% Nationalization program is a concern of mine, especially as my department is under scrutiny at the moment!

Back to hand rails: I can not believe in this day and age that industry standard still remains at a minimum of 950mm top rail height! Someone please correct me if I am wrong! But as you say, it probably was decided by some clueless desk-jockey that scaffolds are only used by Pygmies and other Amazonian tribesmen..!??! (Ok, you probably didn't quite word it like that).

As for a maximum 470mm gap.... I don't think so! I am by no means as lean as I used to be, especially after giving up the cigs 5 years ago, but I can gracefully climb through a 470mm gap donning a life vest, harness and all other offshore apparel with ease.

Cheers,
Phil.
 
Dont quote me on this as I have not fully dug it all out yet but I do believe Double Rail was instigated in 1994 with a long period of grace before being enforced.

Someone please now put me out of my misery!!
 
Phil

Nationalization Program: A good M8 and Associate in Nigeria is experiencing the same dilemma: The ratio of ex-pats and the indigenous work force (Scaffs) is well out of kilter. The indigenous work force has been recruited along Tribal etiquette, the Line Management being close to the hierarchy of elders and the Erectors being from the subordinate members. This provision ensures a very responsive work force. However, as you are well aware it also requires the creation and development of a Training Regime, as the CITB curriculum is a Base Line standard, Orginisations have to devise in-house inductions and addendum's to CITB---if one does not get the backing from the Host Government, then it becomes an up hill struggle. However, all credit to you Phil---your doing a fantastic job in the Delta---above and beyond the Base Line Standards, I hope they appreciate the dedication you and your Crew are demonstrating.
 
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