Scaffolders Study Group

CelticWarrior

On behalf of the Scaffolders Study Group I thank you for stepping up to the plate with your offer of assistance when called upon to do so.

There are Member with varying Degree's of Experience ranging from mere aspirations to seasoned veterans like your good self.

The SSG is still a work in progress, HOWEVER, it is taking shape at a passé and I have no doubt that your advice will be sought in due course.

Garry...
 
Is the NASC a monopoly?

Hi Garry,
Is that the same Garry from the IOSH forums?

My question to everyone is: Are the NASC a monopoly?
 
Scaff

Ye, I Posted a Load of Questions and participated in the Discussion Forums, I haven't Posted on IOSH for quite some time---are you still Posting there ?

Is NASC a monopoly---well, I see no alternatives---some what like CITB !
IT's our way or the High Way :eek:
 
Garry,
Not posted there myself for a while, My posts included the the long awaited release of TG20:08 and my annoyance at the CITB to hang out 2 week courses that cost my firm thousands a year, I would like to see them introduce more complex works into the curriculum.
 
Scaff

I concur with you regarding more Complex Special Structures be included within the CITB Curriculum---more often than not, an off the shelf Scaffold Structure is found to be inadequate and a more Bespoke Scaffold Structure configuration is required. Specialist Scaffolding Firms often have to Train their improver's by means of in-house and or on the Job Practical and Theoretical Training often Delivered by Mentor/Coach Scaffs this provision can be time consuming and therefore expensive = Time cost Money.

Therefore, is the CITB Training Value for Money ???

Garry...
 
In my opinion the CITB is not value for money, most of my lads spend thier time having a smoke or two, or chatting with another gang about how quick they threw 100 square up at the weekend with one arm behind thier back while waiting for the slower gangs to finish.
bed time, i'll finish this tomorrow
 
4safetytraining said:
CITB ?? for us in the US
Click to expand...

They mean the Construction Industry Training Board, they are the main ones behind the construction industry scaffolders record scheme, if your not trained by them here your not considered a qualified scaffolder
 
cisrs_cap_609

Hi mates

What is this all about? trying to divisionalise the 'Scaffolding community'.

In every other Apprenticeship, you are learnt every concievable aspect of your 'Chosen career' path to be able to undertake your profession, with a knowledgeable and competent approach to the task in hand.

So in MY OPINION why should they 'Divisionalise' the CISRS card structure I.E

CISRS Scaffolder ( Tube and Fitting)


CISRS scaffolder (System)

Why doesnt the Apprenticeship encompass every aspect of the wide range of scaffolding duties, they could be expected to carry out, with both I.E T&F & System, Give the lads a chance in these days of 'Dog eat Dog 'and borders open to every Tom, D1ck and Harry.

I will not even go down the lines of the BASE unit and 2 day system course for Adv scaffs.

This is a cross reference, to a doc in the study group, entitled 'Stoic'

These are my views on this post and in no way would i like to say members of the 'Study Group' have been involved in my 'outburst'

Paddy
 
Cisrs cap 609

Paddy,
Easy one to answer this one: MONEY!!!

More courses = more money

Shocking in my opinion. I'm all for good training for scaffs, they are better trained now than they ever were but, I still think there is room for more training in the spare time they have on the courses at the moment.
 
Further to Paddy's Post.

The Depersonalization of the Traditional Scaffold Structures and the Prefabricated Scaffold Systems may be an attempt to Grade the degree Competancy required to erect the Structures. Volumes 1 and 2 of the TG20:08 Denationalize the Traditional Scaffold Structures and the Prefabricated Scaffold Systems.

There is no question that two Types of Scaffolds require different Techniques, Practical and Theoretical Training to be a Competant and Capable Erector, however, Devitalizing the Scaffolding Disapline may be the thin edge of the wedge for allowing other Trades to gain Competancy levels in Erecting System Scaffolds, nevertheless, the more Complex and Specialist Structures in Tube and fittings will be retained by the Real Scaffold Erectors.

Technical Colleges that offer pre-apprentice training for the Building Trade Disapline are looking at including System Scaffolding Modules in their curriculum, the Training Program uses the Manufacturers Recommendations and Safe Systems of Work and Method Statements together with Practical Training in off the Shelf Structures. It is not a Statutory requirement for Tom, **** or Harry to have formal CITB Training in either System or Traditional Scaffolding Training.

Traditional Scaffolding Structures in Tube and Fitting are becoming a Specialisim and those Scaffolders who have gained the Competency and capability to erect these Structures will always be in demand, however, the System only Scaffolders need to reinforce their Skills Base by including Tube and Fitting Experience.
 
Garry,
Your not still banging on about them torque values?

did you ever get that torque spanner built?
 
Scaff

Course Time Management and Curriculum Content---there may be room for improvement---if you were invited to join CITB in joint consultation to discuss curriculum content, what would you like to table for consideration ?.

---------- Post added at 11:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

Scaff

Na M8---Iv gave up the Ghost on the Torque---whiped it to death LOLooo---it was just a OH&S exersice, Iv went back to basics getin mi Tartan Banners ready for the shut down season ;)
 
Garry & Scaff

I can see exactly where you's are coming from, however, a Apprentice Brickie after learning how to lay bricks, doesnt have to go on another course (and pay) to learn how to lay Blocks.

The whole of the current course Curriculum (CISRS) needs to be reviewed, what happened to the saying " If it,s not broke, dont try and fix it" albeit, there was some points of concern contained in the old CITB cards.

All i am saying is give the kids a chance to broaden there horizons, without the Monetary implications of courses,courses and ££££££ to the providers.

I still believe in the Strata of Trainee, Scaffolder and Advanced scaffolder cards, but i would like the division of Tube and fitting scaffolder, and System scaffolder incorporated into 1 card, where the Apprentice, has been introduced to all the different types of scaffolding, and has the knowledge of the Materials that they can expect to encounter in there profession.

Paddy
 
Paddy
I kind of agree with you there, unfortunatley we are a tube and fitting company only, apart from haki stairs and haki roof systems, which make it difficult to sign off evidence as a works based recorder for different types of system scaffolds if you dont actually have the system in your yard. I agree though that some kind of training in other systems at CITB training centres should be intergrated into the Pt1 and Pt2 training and say call you a basic erector of system scaffolding, but if you use a system more frequently then opt for extra training in that field. It mainly boils down to the H&S@WA 1974 Training, Competency etc.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

Gentlemen,
I'm a bit of a file hoarder so if I can help in any way regarding some file sharing just give me a shout.
 
Scaff

Thanks for the reply m8.

Would it not be a feasible option to carry out all the training, we have stated, and have Tube & Fitting and System scaffolding, attached on the back of the card,However. AS we are, like you, a T&F company, only have the NVQ attached to the most practical option. Just a thought, your views would be appreciated.

Paddy
 
Paddy,
sounds practicle enough, but its not for us to say unless we become a big body with a big say (contributions by HSE, NASC, CITB and Scaffolders Forum) that would be nice.
 
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