RE: Simon Hughes../ FREE TRAINING...

[Dean Davies]

celticbhoy, I understand that of course I do and I feel sympathy for your guys. But I know lots of blokes that did the assesed route when it was there. Lots paid out of there own pockets to do it and if you like they are now benifiting from that.

I work with blokes who can drive the wagon on a normal lisence, but i cant because I missed the cutoff date. That is life to me and i except that if I want to drive the wagon I willl need to do extra traing. It doesnt mean they are better at driving than me, just that they wear in the right place at the right time,

if the bring the assesed route back that will take money away form other courses like aprenticis, part 1 2 and advanced, beacuase everyone will stop doing the courses so they will never do it mate.

 

[phil181]

The reason the assessed route of entry was abandoned, was because the WAH Regs requires people who work at heights to be TRAINED and competent in the work they're carrying out. Exactely the same reason why the ECITB card is being withdrawn.

The WAH Regs comply with an EU directive from the early 00's (which I can't be arsed to research or Google)

The company I work for withdrew their NASC membership some years ago over this matter (No small decision considering the size of the company and their customer base) as half of their scaffolding operatives were ECITB, with the other half CISRS. After a year of research, they realised that they were fighting a losing battle so they got all of their ECITB lads CISRS trained and sheepishly re-joined the NASC.

I'm not doubting anyone's ability on this forum to carry out scaffolding duties. Yes, there are a lot of CISRS holders (Blue AND Gold) who struggle to erect even a basic scaffold, although I'm sure there are also plenty of useless ECITB card holders! But fair or unfair - it's how it is.

So basically, however much you jump up and down, blame the NASC, the HSE, the CISRS, your ex wife, Margaret Thatcher or various scaffolding training orginisations - you're not gonna change anything, because the law does not allow it to be changed.

Good luck anyway.

 

[scaffarobbo]

The assessed route should only be available to ecitb scaffs not everyone . This is typical of the experiences I have had with scaffs on many occasion .Pull up the ladder Im alright or your not in the clique fu$k off . If you are good at your job you will be rarely without work , the ecitb guys are not being given that chance .So you can`t drive a 7.5 tonner cause you missed the cut off date , will you pay for the training to drive it , I doubt it .

 

[dico]

yeah the assesed route might have been around for a while but notification of this was very quiet in the industrial sector the ecitb should not have been issued if it wasent
a valid ticket and the nasc cisrs and parties should not of let it through and stopped it in its tracks.not let it run for 25 plus years cisrs only been out 30 years i could say the assesed weekend route was a fast how can you have a bloke jump on a weekend course
for four days paye hes money and become a scaffolder even dave mosley said this was being abussed and this probablys the reason it was stopped nothing else 4 days and your
a scaffolder yeah if youve got exsperience as some did not a bloody labourer with spanners on and 1800 in hes back pocket that he borrowed off hes nan!!!!!!

 

[celticbhoy]

i cant belive im having a discussion with fellow scaffs about the merits of why ecitb guys never went for there citb card,maybe because they never thought the carpet be pulled from under there feet.if you had made the cut off to drive the truck and wait for it you had been driving it twenty years.........then the goverment said that you no longer can drive the said truck as your accreditation was unvalid??????what would your responce be bearing in mind you had to have that licence to keep your job??????lets all stop this whos to blame culture and get behind the eictb lads on this one,you never know it could be us guys next so why cant we all be more positive on this subject as they need their fellow scaffs suppourt.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

one more point the part 1 part2 and current advance courses need an immediate revamp,trainning centres trainers the lot.the expediancy levels thats returning from these places is shocking.all the great shining lights in our industry[supposedly]cant come up with anything more substantial than these petty attendance courses,quite frankly they are letting the youth down its now becoming a joke.

 

[XxIANxX]

sweeping statement celticboy , have you actually visited all these centres to actually justify your statement

 

[phil181]

i cant belive im having a discussion with fellow scaffs about the merits of why ecitb guys never went for there citb card,maybe because they never thought the carpet be pulled from under there feet.if you had made the cut off to drive the truck and wait for it you had been driving it twenty years.........then the goverment said that you no longer can drive the said truck as your accreditation was unvalid??????what would your responce be bearing in mind you had to have that licence to keep your job??????lets all stop this whos to blame culture and get behind the eictb lads on this one,you never know it could be us guys next so why cant we all be more positive on this subject as they need their fellow scaffs suppourt.

---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

one more point the part 1 part2 and current advance courses need an immediate revamp,trainning centres trainers the lot.the expediancy levels thats returning from these places is shocking.all the great shining lights in our industry[supposedly]cant come up with anything more substantial than these petty attendance courses,quite frankly they are letting the youth down its now becoming a joke.

Yet here you are fighting for lads who have had NO formal training to recieve the qualifications that these courses offer, without actually having to attend ANY of those courses.

You can't have it both ways mate.

 

[SWIFTY]

As the earlier post says "you can't have it both ways"



____________________________________________
Seagulls cause grievous bodily harm to eagles............

 

[brandy]

Hi Brandy,

It always amazes me the sheer number of people who wouldn't help their fellow man.

Greetings AOM. Self interest has always been the religion of the oppressor, but when the working man uses it against his fellow worker, that amazes me. One mans struggle today, could be anothers tomorrow.

 

[phil181]

Greetings AOM. Self interest has always been the religion of the oppressor, but when the working man uses it against his fellow worker, that amazes me. One mans struggle today, could be anothers tomorrow.

I don't understand that statement. If you read my post in the previous page it clearly explains why nothing can be done about this situation.

I'm sure a lot of guys on this forum have paid for the correct training out of their own pockets. I didn't see any ECITB scaffolders have a whip round for any of them.

There is a growing blame culture in this country where people expect others to do everything for them.

There is only going to be three outcomes from all of this.

1, Get a different job
2, Go on the dole
3, Get the correct training.

 

[dico]

bloody hell phil when i was at kingsnorth pwr in 2007 i was asked to sighn a form up in your firms office supporting the ecitb lads which i did and i no there were some with this ticket good lads too. maybe they have there tickets now i dont no but i no my self and others sighned that form we could go on and on with this ticket issue some agree some dont glad 95% agree as for formal trainning whats that then. ive not once been out of work in over 20 years unless ive choose to be dont that tell you something .

 

[phil181]

bloody hell phil when i was at kingsnorth pwr in 2007 i was asked to sighn a form up in your firms office supporting the ecitb lads which i did and i no there were some with this ticket good lads too. maybe they have there tickets now i dont no but i no my self and others sighned that form we could go on and on with this ticket issue some agree some dont glad 95% agree as for formal trainning whats that then. ive not once been out of work in over 20 years unless ive choose to be dont that tell you something .

I'm not criticising anyone for having an ECITB ticket. I feel sorry for all the lads that have been affected.

All that I'm saying is that there is nothing that can be done bar lobbying the EU.

I'm sure you're a decent scaff mate, and ike i said in an earlier post - It doesn't matter what ticket you've got to make a decent scaff.

 

[dico]

no offence taken phill i came into the scaffold sector to earn some decent money thats why i jacked in rumbelows driving a van that shows you how long a go that was and i dont wana be going back down that road on 575 an hour lol.

 

[phil181]

no offence taken phill i came into the scaffold sector to earn some decent money thats why i jacked in rumbelows driving a van that shows you how long a go that was and i dont wana be going back down that road on 575 an hour lol.

No I appreciate that mate.

All my point is that there is absolutely nothing anything can be done to resolve this situation apart from starting the CISRS training from scratch. The law just does not allow it.

Rumbelows takes us back a bit. Hope they gave you free tickets to the fooball league cup final? :idea:

Good luck.

 

[paddy carr]

Yet here you are fighting for lads who have had NO formal training to recieve the qualifications that these courses offer, without actually having to attend ANY of those courses.

You can't have it both ways mate.

Phil mate
Formal training hasnt been around since 1066 mate, when i started in 1978, at the age of 18, CITB was just raising it's head for 'Scaffolders', in my work domain anyway.

I got taught off the old hands, who in turn got taught, themselves by their mentors.

When the CITB card was needed, i had served 2 years on the 'spanners' the first 6 mths on the deck, loading up the 'Scaffs'. I actually asked to go to Bircham Newton, but was refused as i could gain my CITB card through 'Grandfather rights'.:amazed:

In 2000, myself and another colleague, had the oppurtunity, to take our 'Advanced course' funded by my Employer, for 10 days.

On attending the centre we were faced with a option. 10 day Advanced course (being taught) or a 5 day Assessed route of entry, (ASRE) with NVQ 3, and having to submit your Portfolio.

We took the latter option, and after submitting our 'Portfolios' CSCS touchscreen and form and photo sent, we recieved our Gold card.

My point being mate, even though i have been scaffolding 32 years, and have all the right cards etc, to this day i have never recieved any formal training for the erection or dismantling of scaffolding.

Regards
Paddy

 

[brandy]

I don't understand that statement. If you read my post in the previous page it clearly explains why nothing can be done about this situation.

I'm sure a lot of guys on this forum have paid for the correct training out of their own pockets. I didn't see any ECITB scaffolders have a whip round for any of them.

There is a growing blame culture in this country where people expect others to do everything for them.

There is only going to be three outcomes from all of this.

1, Get a different job
2, Go on the dole
3, Get the correct training.

Phil. Think you misunderstood my post. It was in reply to AOM's post, and one that I replied to from Dean Davis. However I agree with you re- the blame culture, too easy an option and a cop out from taking responsibility for ones own actions or lack of an effort. However I have been in this game and this life long enough to know the difference between those that sit on their arse and expect everything done for them and those that make the effort but through certain circumstances could do with a bit of support now an again. Hope that clears up the misunderstanding.

 

[celticbhoy]

no formal training to recive the qualifications i speak about!!!!what???paddy you nailed it again mate,lol something else i rest my case dico animal i wish you all the best lads if you need any suppourt you can count on me for one,lets hope common sence prevails lads.

---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

one mans struggle today could be anothers tomorrow........perfectly put mate.

 

[Dean Davies]

My point being mate, even though i have been scaffolding 32 years, and have all the right cards etc, to this day i have never recieved any formal training for the erection or dismantling of scaffolding.

Regards
Paddy

Which is what i think they are trying to stop now.

 

[celticbhoy]

dean the lads now are going through courses 1,2,3 and returning saying that the course or courses were of poor standard sitting round listening to tales of yesteryear from the appointed instructer,dont you think it would be better the lads being assessed on site.me myself personally spent near on a year at bircham where as id say id have been better training with the on site scaffolders,i was 18 and had near every qualification available.

 

[phil181]

Phil mate
Formal training hasnt been around since 1066 mate, when i started in 1978, at the age of 18, CITB was just raising it's head for 'Scaffolders', in my work domain anyway.

I got taught off the old hands, who in turn got taught, themselves by their mentors.

When the CITB card was needed, i had served 2 years on the 'spanners' the first 6 mths on the deck, loading up the 'Scaffs'. I actually asked to go to Bircham Newton, but was refused as i could gain my CITB card through 'Grandfather rights'.:amazed:

In 2000, myself and another colleague, had the oppurtunity, to take our 'Advanced course' funded by my Employer, for 10 days.

On attending the centre we were faced with a option. 10 day Advanced course (being taught) or a 5 day Assessed route of entry, (ASRE) with NVQ 3, and having to submit your Portfolio.

We took the latter option, and after submitting our 'Portfolios' CSCS touchscreen and form and photo sent, we recieved our Gold card.

My point being mate, even though i have been scaffolding 32 years, and have all the right cards etc, to this day i have never recieved any formal training for the erection or dismantling of scaffolding.

Regards
Paddy

Yeah I appreciate all this fellas. My dad got given an old CITB advanced card without as much as having to fill out a form.

Having now been involved in the game for nearly 20 years, I do feel that I've got half an idea about what's what in the industry.

All I'm saying is that like it or not, 'formal training' is NOW required for anyone wishing to obtain a CISRS card for the first time. There's no other way round it. (See my earlier post on page 5)

I'm not saying it's fair lads. I'm just saying how it is.

If there was anything I could do to help out a fellow scaffolder stuck in a situation like this, then I'd be glad to help. But there isn't.

Regards

Phil.