PW
Well-known member
I would certainly second that.
Members
- Thread starter paddy carr
- Start date
Garry Adams
Well-known member
Paddy M8
I second the proposal for CelticWarrior to be our Republic of Ireland representative on the Committee---all be it that C.W. accepts the nomination ?...
Garry...
I second the proposal for CelticWarrior to be our Republic of Ireland representative on the Committee---all be it that C.W. accepts the nomination ?...
Garry...
CelticWarrior
Well-known member
Thanks Fellas,
I of course accept the proposal with thanks and look forward to doing what I can.
One thing though I am currently looking overseas for something suitable(if that happens)but still pricing and doing a bit here, So while I'm still in the Emerald Isle I'll do what I can,if thats OK with you Guys?
Also can I cliam Mandy for the weekends:blink1::blink1:
Thanks Again,
Gaz.
I of course accept the proposal with thanks and look forward to doing what I can.
One thing though I am currently looking overseas for something suitable(if that happens)but still pricing and doing a bit here, So while I'm still in the Emerald Isle I'll do what I can,if thats OK with you Guys?
Also can I cliam Mandy for the weekends:blink1::blink1:
Thanks Again,
Gaz.
paddy carr
Moderator
Trudy, seconds Mandy
CelticWarrior
Well-known member
Digsie,
that would be a challenge I would get me teeth into.The problem with FAS is that they were training Guys to be Scaffolders on Housing schemes using Kwik-Stage as this was the order of the day.
I personally kept my business away from housing as I could not stand it but unfortunately that's where the easy money was.
I stuck to street, industrial and specialist work and made a good go of it and thankfully after alot of reshuffling had some great guy's working with me.
The downside to the housing boom recession was to see these guys from housing move into my and other good guy's bread and butter and pricing industrial work with housing site rates, totally screwed it up for the rest of us.
As for FAS I know for a fact that some centres had contracted out the training and as long as you had the price of a pint on the last day your course was passed.THIS WAS AND IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.I would like to see anyone trained under these contractors redo the course but again the course has to be changed to focus on the lines of the CITB way of training otherwise you have some good Scaff's going abroad to bwe told their advanced card aint worth nothing outside the 26 counties.
This is something I would like to and work at being changed,
Gaz
that would be a challenge I would get me teeth into.The problem with FAS is that they were training Guys to be Scaffolders on Housing schemes using Kwik-Stage as this was the order of the day.
I personally kept my business away from housing as I could not stand it but unfortunately that's where the easy money was.
I stuck to street, industrial and specialist work and made a good go of it and thankfully after alot of reshuffling had some great guy's working with me.
The downside to the housing boom recession was to see these guys from housing move into my and other good guy's bread and butter and pricing industrial work with housing site rates, totally screwed it up for the rest of us.
As for FAS I know for a fact that some centres had contracted out the training and as long as you had the price of a pint on the last day your course was passed.THIS WAS AND IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
I would like to see anyone trained under these contractors redo the course but again the course has to be changed to focus on the lines of the CITB way of training otherwise you have some good Scaff's going abroad to bwe told their advanced card aint worth nothing outside the 26 counties.This is something I would like to and work at being changed,
Gaz
I was on jobs in dublin had an advanced scaff over me I only had my basic at the time,needed to do a hanger from beams around a chimney stack,I had to show him what to do,as he only ever done houses I started scaffolding in power stations difference was shocking.Not by any means sayin im super scaff,but that bit about the price of a pint rings true.Am i imagining things or did an instructor in Ballymun get caught with backhanders a few yrs ago?
paddy carr
Moderator
Guys this is a cross reference thread with the,Committee for consultation rights' thread.
Basicaly, what we need is your support to join the Group, so firstly we can see the support we have, and secondly, the most important factor, what can we do for you.
To register your interest you need to be a member of scaffoldersforum.com click on community and then social groups. Drop down menu join group. A lot easier than dong a hanger ona Mon morn.
So come on guys give us your views.
Regards
Committe for Consultation rights.
Basicaly, what we need is your support to join the Group, so firstly we can see the support we have, and secondly, the most important factor, what can we do for you.
To register your interest you need to be a member of scaffoldersforum.com click on community and then social groups. Drop down menu join group. A lot easier than dong a hanger ona Mon morn.
So come on guys give us your views.
Regards
Committe for Consultation rights.
jonnyoneye
Well-known member
Only just read this thread, but a great idea !
I think that i'm off to Abu Dhabi next week, but if i can every help, count me in.
Good luck to you all.
Cheers, J
PS. Could this be the start of a proper, Scaffolders only Union ?
This should have happened years ago, and i remember well in the late 70's when guys came arond one of the sites i was working on, suggesting that we all stood together like the Engineering lads were doing. We were all warned by our then employers, Mcalpines, that if we showed any interest, we were going to be finished up.
Everyone then lost interest, but over the years i've seen us demoted to not much more that glorified labourers, even on proper Blue Book jobs, and i've regretted the fact that we didn't all stick together at the time and show exactly why the construction world and industry in general needed us.
Mmm....... i think that i might open another thread on this one day !
I think that i'm off to Abu Dhabi next week, but if i can every help, count me in.
Good luck to you all.
Cheers, J
PS. Could this be the start of a proper, Scaffolders only Union ?
This should have happened years ago, and i remember well in the late 70's when guys came arond one of the sites i was working on, suggesting that we all stood together like the Engineering lads were doing. We were all warned by our then employers, Mcalpines, that if we showed any interest, we were going to be finished up.
Everyone then lost interest, but over the years i've seen us demoted to not much more that glorified labourers, even on proper Blue Book jobs, and i've regretted the fact that we didn't all stick together at the time and show exactly why the construction world and industry in general needed us.
Mmm....... i think that i might open another thread on this one day !
paddy carr
Moderator
Jonny
Thanks for your support mate.
PS. Could this be the start of a proper, Scaffolders only Union ?
This should have happened years ago, and i remember well in the late 70's when guys came arond one of the sites i was working on, suggesting that we all stood together .
Jonnyoneye mate, that was my original vision, however, NO not at this time, the guys are all in this together, there is a committee, however, its a volunteer based one.
There is no monetary gains in any stance on this committee, and with it being a democracy, The volunteers are steered at this current time by the members they represent,at a cost of their own. No Reg organisers expenses,reg sec etc,etc,etc
---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------
Thanks for your support mate.
PS. Could this be the start of a proper, Scaffolders only Union ?
This should have happened years ago, and i remember well in the late 70's when guys came arond one of the sites i was working on, suggesting that we all stood together .
Jonnyoneye mate, that was my original vision, however, NO not at this time, the guys are all in this together, there is a committee, however, its a volunteer based one.
There is no monetary gains in any stance on this committee, and with it being a democracy, The volunteers are steered at this current time by the members they represent,at a cost of their own. No Reg organisers expenses,reg sec etc,etc,etc
---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------
jonnyoneye
Well-known member
Paddy boyo,
I understand that there is nothing financial about helping out on this movement, and i wouldn,t expect there to be.
My point was that ONE DAY, we all might get it together and form the Scaffolders Union that we should have had many years ago. It will be too late to affect me, but i've always thought that we were massivly undervalued in the industry world and that we should have rectified the matter some time ago. Isn't there something similar in Ireland ? Wasn't there a scaffolders strike there a few years ago, perhaps CelticWarrier can tell us more ?
Trouble is with all of this, if the industry is allowed to 'watersdown' the class of scaffolder allowed to work on projects and sites around the country (as they have done for years), then the better trained and conscientious of us will never get properly compensated for the difficult and sometimes dangerous work that we do.
All power to the committee and i hope that one day it evolves into something that will fight and get a better deal for proper guys, doing a proper job.
J
I understand that there is nothing financial about helping out on this movement, and i wouldn,t expect there to be.
My point was that ONE DAY, we all might get it together and form the Scaffolders Union that we should have had many years ago. It will be too late to affect me, but i've always thought that we were massivly undervalued in the industry world and that we should have rectified the matter some time ago. Isn't there something similar in Ireland ? Wasn't there a scaffolders strike there a few years ago, perhaps CelticWarrier can tell us more ?
Trouble is with all of this, if the industry is allowed to 'watersdown' the class of scaffolder allowed to work on projects and sites around the country (as they have done for years), then the better trained and conscientious of us will never get properly compensated for the difficult and sometimes dangerous work that we do.
All power to the committee and i hope that one day it evolves into something that will fight and get a better deal for proper guys, doing a proper job.
J
paddy carr
Moderator
J
Thanks for the reply mate, As you say, a scaffolders TU would be the way forward, however, IMHO, i think the guys that joined the Union would be discriminated by some Employers, when they were seeking employment.
I remember in the 70's during the building of Eldon Square in Newcastle, the Scaffolders went on strike. Mc Alpines was the PC at the time, and the Scaffs were cards in to them.
There were many a ugly scene in the streets of Newcastle, as the scaffs stopped all work in and around the city centre, but all in all, the majority of scaffolders stopped work in support of them.
To get round this issue McAlpines drafted in scaffolders from Ireland. A few altercations and Byker teacakes were dished out in the pubs on a nightime, however the 'Geordie scaffs' never held it against the Irish lads for long.
After the strike was settled, 6 weeks i think, there were murmers of 'Blacklisting' in fact this was true. Many scaffs involved with the Eldon Square strike were blacklisted for 20 year plus.
Regards
Paddy UCATT Shop steward & Safety Rep:bigsmile:
Thanks for the reply mate, As you say, a scaffolders TU would be the way forward, however, IMHO, i think the guys that joined the Union would be discriminated by some Employers, when they were seeking employment.
I remember in the 70's during the building of Eldon Square in Newcastle, the Scaffolders went on strike. Mc Alpines was the PC at the time, and the Scaffs were cards in to them.
There were many a ugly scene in the streets of Newcastle, as the scaffs stopped all work in and around the city centre, but all in all, the majority of scaffolders stopped work in support of them.
To get round this issue McAlpines drafted in scaffolders from Ireland. A few altercations and Byker teacakes were dished out in the pubs on a nightime, however the 'Geordie scaffs' never held it against the Irish lads for long.
After the strike was settled, 6 weeks i think, there were murmers of 'Blacklisting' in fact this was true. Many scaffs involved with the Eldon Square strike were blacklisted for 20 year plus.
Regards
Paddy UCATT Shop steward & Safety Rep:bigsmile:
CelticWarrior
Well-known member
Paddy and Jonny,
There was a strike in 1998 I was a contracts manager with one of the big firms here at the time.The strike was organisied by SIPTU the bigger of all the trade unions it was organised by a scaffolder who was working with SGB at the time and he stirred it up big time.This strike was made for him to get a job with the union.
Unfortunatley the strike which lasted 8 weeks did nothing for the lads it was supposed to,.. at the time the rate was 7.90 and the union wanted 18.00 an hour this was not going to happen in any way.
In the end the Boss's of the big companies stepped in and sorted it out.But it was never the same again gone where the job and knocks and double shifts for 2 jobs in 1 day and the overtime rate became based on the new rate which was upped by 1.98 per hour and rated on grandfaher rights and advanced holders.
A lot of hot air,. that I think saw the industry at time go downhill.
There was a strike in 1998 I was a contracts manager with one of the big firms here at the time.The strike was organisied by SIPTU the bigger of all the trade unions it was organised by a scaffolder who was working with SGB at the time and he stirred it up big time.This strike was made for him to get a job with the union.
Unfortunatley the strike which lasted 8 weeks did nothing for the lads it was supposed to,.. at the time the rate was 7.90 and the union wanted 18.00 an hour this was not going to happen in any way.
In the end the Boss's of the big companies stepped in and sorted it out.But it was never the same again gone where the job and knocks and double shifts for 2 jobs in 1 day and the overtime rate became based on the new rate which was upped by 1.98 per hour and rated on grandfaher rights and advanced holders.
A lot of hot air,. that I think saw the industry at time go downhill.
Garry Adams
Well-known member
I have been involved with the Unions ( CEU, OILC, AMICUS ) since the early 70s, every time we hit the cobbles, we got a kick in the Bawz---the auld ways are gone---we must find new ways, move on and play to our stengths, perhaps an Orginisation that Provides a Labour Only Service may be worth a thought, Providing ALL Man Power, the Principal provides the Material.
The North American Model works quite well...
There have been a few Forum Members sudgessted this already---I just thought that give it another airing---any thoughts Guys ???
The North American Model works quite well...
There have been a few Forum Members sudgessted this already---I just thought that give it another airing---any thoughts Guys ???
Garry Adams
Well-known member
aom
The Unions represent the Man Power---The Unions do not work in this Modern Times, therefore, why cant the Man Power orginise it's self to provide Labour Only to the Large Construction Projects, we supply the Labour and negosiate Terms and Conditions---without Labour nothing moves...
The Unions represent the Man Power---The Unions do not work in this Modern Times, therefore, why cant the Man Power orginise it's self to provide Labour Only to the Large Construction Projects, we supply the Labour and negosiate Terms and Conditions---without Labour nothing moves...
CelticWarrior
Well-known member
Garry,
Jimmy Hoffa is alive and well and living in Aberdeen???Up the teamsters
I have seen the unions overhere being completely money hungry and driven by greed and power.After the strike overhere the unions lost all confidence from most of the scaff's.During the boom time they then refocused on the Eastern European guys and this was done to boost the coffers.
I do agree there has to be a better way forward but the only way is agreement with each other and no back stabbing and I mean this in pricing, poaching and undercutting.
As with other posts on other threads most guys point out that it costs Scaffolders alot of money and training to do there jobs.So if we invest in our trade We have to get our bang for our buck..
Jimmy Hoffa is alive and well and living in Aberdeen???Up the teamsters
I have seen the unions overhere being completely money hungry and driven by greed and power.After the strike overhere the unions lost all confidence from most of the scaff's.During the boom time they then refocused on the Eastern European guys and this was done to boost the coffers.
I do agree there has to be a better way forward but the only way is agreement with each other and no back stabbing and I mean this in pricing, poaching and undercutting.
As with other posts on other threads most guys point out that it costs Scaffolders alot of money and training to do there jobs.So if we invest in our trade We have to get our bang for our buck..
Garry Adams
Well-known member
celticwarrior
Indeed, it costs a small fortune to pay CITB for the right to work---the Scaffs would Self Regulate our Training Programms and surpass the CITB.
Let us not forget that the CITB is a Redg. charity and it is not a Statutory Requirement to hold a CITB Card---our Disapline is goverened by Competency and Capability---if the Scaffs can match or better ( which would not be hard to do ) CITB in the Training Regimes we would not have to pay protection money...
Indeed, it costs a small fortune to pay CITB for the right to work---the Scaffs would Self Regulate our Training Programms and surpass the CITB.
Let us not forget that the CITB is a Redg. charity and it is not a Statutory Requirement to hold a CITB Card---our Disapline is goverened by Competency and Capability---if the Scaffs can match or better ( which would not be hard to do ) CITB in the Training Regimes we would not have to pay protection money...