Assessed Route Changes

Ecitb,no course required,asre,attend construction college and undergo a condensed advance scaffolder course including classroom and erect several advance jobs off drawings and complete a level 3 nvq with portfolio including working at height,at what point does there become no training?the asre course was exactly the same course as the standard two week advance course only shortened to accommodate the ecitb boys who were being shafted,i held the old citb advance and also had the ecitb advance off the industrial side,i also done the asre so I would have the modern cisrs card along with the nvq level 3,i would say you certainly have an axe to grind hswt with the asre route,as you repeatedly state there was no training,are you under the assumption that scaffs just turned up and were given an advance card without any input or effort?:wondering:
 
philliosmaximus said:
I done the ARE , part of that course was to do a NVQ level 3 to get our tickets would that not be considered as training ?
If they decided to revoke the ARE tickets would that mean that the NVQ 3 would be taken away as well.
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I put some foreign workers through NVQ Level 2 some years ago. However to get a CISRS card we were told they would have to go to the UK and complete the part 1 and 2 training courses.Obviously this was never going to happen.
 
i have respect for every scaffolder thats been in the game wether your {ARE} or the so called rice crispie ticket as some call it!! the whole systems wrong 4 days in a classroom for 2 weekends and your qualified for a gold card beats me iam not knocking the [ARE] cause i was taught and brought up with most of them. shame that not all got a leter throw the door. its a shame that every scaffolder dont stick together then we could all sort the game out once and for all. respect to aom as well hes had it all from me he must have more of a headache than my wife lol!!!
 
haha, no worries Dico, everyone needs a rant and you more than most given everything that's happened. The truth is, guys like you are worth listening too, you are the only one who is loosing hand over fist.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
Havespannerwilltravel said:
I put some foreign workers through NVQ Level 2 some years ago. However to get a CISRS card we were told they would have to go to the UK and complete the part 1 and 2 training courses.Obviously this was never going to happen.
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It is a British qualification though. We send CISRS instructors abroad all the time to all corners of the globe, but the course criteria is reduced by about 50% as they don't deliver an NVQ.
 
bigfish said:
Ecitb,no course required,asre,attend construction college and undergo a condensed advance scaffolder course including classroom and erect several advance jobs off drawings and complete a level 3 nvq with portfolio including working at height,at what point does there become no training?the asre course was exactly the same course as the standard two week advance course only shortened to accommodate the ecitb boys who were being shafted,i held the old citb advance and also had the ecitb advance off the industrial side,i also done the asre so I would have the modern cisrs card along with the nvq level 3,i would say you certainly have an axe to grind hswt with the asre route,as you repeatedly state there was no training,are you under the assumption that scaffs just turned up and were given an advance card without any input or effort?:wondering:
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2 weekends in a classroom bigfish or should say 3 days as most stopped the sunday at dinner time where the instructor wanted to go home early. take your fag breaks off and your lunches and breaks off with the nvq you must of only done 2 days on the building of a scaffold for a gold card. i dont care who as what ticket but the ecitb scaffoldert got shafted. as your self the question would you want to wake up 1 morning and labour for the lads you taught and be payed a labourers rate. answer NO:cool:
 
bigfish said:
Ecitb,no course required,asre,attend construction college and undergo a condensed advance scaffolder course including classroom and erect several advance jobs off drawings and complete a level 3 nvq with portfolio including working at height,at what point does there become no training?the asre course was exactly the same course as the standard two week advance course only shortened to accommodate the ecitb boys who were being shafted,i held the old citb advance and also had the ecitb advance off the industrial side,i also done the asre so I would have the modern cisrs card along with the nvq level 3,i would say you certainly have an axe to grind hswt with the asre route,as you repeatedly state there was no training,are you under the assumption that scaffs just turned up and were given an advance card without any input or effort?:wondering:
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Certainly no axe to grind BF. Although I personally know guys who attended the ASRE and openly admit they just passed gear for others!!

I was telephoned quite a few years by a friend who was running a large scaffold company. He had recently employed a lot of new starts and was concerned that they had NVQ3 on their gold cards while he only had advanced course on his. He asked me if I had NVQ3 which I didnt just the advanced course on the back. We then decided we might need to do this so contacted CISRS who said we had to do a 2 day assessment and bring a portfolio with us. I booked the assessment at Erith. Turned up and the assessor was an old mate who I had worked offshore with. I never did a fitting up over the 2 days and was signed off with flying colours by my mate. In fact I was even asked to sign off jobs in some of the other course attendee's portfolios then and there.
Went away sent my gold card off. A month later it came back exactly the same no NVQ3 just the advanced course. I rang the CISRS to ask why and after many calls was told that I didnt have to do the NVQ as I had started scaffolding and received training many years before the NVQ came into effect. They admitted that I had been wrongly advised and I recieved the course costs back plus compensation of loss of earnings, travel, expenses etc.
 
That's a good point Dico, it's like everything in life, you don't really appreciate how hard or unfair something is till it directly affects you. The ECITB thing is a total fiasco, it has been from start to finish.
 
aom said:
haha, no worries Dico, everyone needs a rant and you more than most given everything that's happened. The truth is, guys like you are worth listening too, you are the only one who is loosing hand over fist.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------



It is a British qualification though. We send CISRS instructors abroad all the time to all corners of the globe, but the course criteria is reduced by about 50% as they don't deliver an NVQ.
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When we did it the course was exactly the same as the British course. In fact it was all set up by one of the training schools that sent 3 guys over from the UK. NVQ certificates were issued to all those who passed. These certificates came from the UK with all the different units etc on.We as an accredited CITB training centre could not issue the certs ourselves.
 
like someone said on a earlier thread trainning centre members are reading every thread and dont comment exspecially a certain forum sponcer that dont sponcer the forum anymore but pops on when theres something to do with cisrs or nasc s!am comes to mind.
 
May well be true but as I said it's a UK qualification. I have spoken to a few instructors working all over and what they tell me the course is the exact same but no paper work no underpinning knowledge just erecting steel. It may have changed from the early days but that is what's happening now.
 
dico said:
2 weekends in a classroom bigfish or should say 3 days as most stopped the sunday at dinner time where the instructor wanted to go home early. take your fag breaks off and your lunches and breaks off with the nvq you must of only done 2 days on the building of a scaffold for a gold card. i dont care who as what ticket but the ecitb scaffoldert got shafted. as your self the question would you want to wake up 1 morning and labour for the lads you taught and be payed a labourers rate. answer NO:cool:
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I agree with what you say dico,dont forget I was a ecitb scaffolder as well and had I not done the assessed route would not of had a cisrs ticket either,yes it was 4 days but they were four full days to cram everything in and your portfolio and nvq weren't done in four days,anyway,it was cisrs own course and they provided the course content and training,they wont and cant recall the men who attended and completed their course,this is totally different to the ecitb case where no course at all was completed;)
 
aom said:
May well be true but as I said it's a UK qualification. I have spoken to a few instructors working all over and what they tell me the course is the exact same but no paper work no underpinning knowledge just erecting steel. It may have changed from the early days but that is what's happening now.
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The ones I did had a massive amount of paperwork. Knowledge questions, copies of tool box talk etc, tape recorded interviews, photographic evidence the lot.
 
I did the A route when it was first offered in the 90's and it was an intense 5 days with the threat of failing for 3 mistakes, which a Scaff nearly did. In later years I heard stories from scaffs that attended the course saying that the whole thing had become a joke with everyone passing and no pressure. I think the whole idea was good in principle and if managed correctly would have actually failed sh!t scaffs....something the training centres don't do these days.
 
We cannot comment on any of this as our centre did not open until 2008. This was 2 years after the assessed route finished.
 
Simian, I Thought The Assesed Route Finished In 1996, Not 2006.
 
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