**hilti drill replaces the spanner**

aom

Howz it hangin M8y---as per usual YOUR comments are always valued---In the interest of a Consensus of opinion, please contribute your views.

Garry...
 
Everything hangin fine this end Gary. Usually try and keep quiet in threads I have no real knowledge off. Regarding the hilti spanner- never used it but like the idea of going home without aching and regarding torque values- I personally have never come across a major problem with this. That doesn't mean one doesn't exist it just hasn't come up here. I have seen fitting not done up at all and I have come across fittings where forearms like popeye would be handy but the loose fittings would not be solved by any kind of spanner and the overtightened fittings are a rare breed. Maybe if I took a torque spanner to a job we built recently and measured individual fittings I would change my opinion.
 
aom

I concur, one cannot Regulate against Human Error---on Safety Surveys conducted, on avarage 33 % of Component Parts Surveyed were found to be out of Compliance, Either over or Under. This Data was substanciated my a Leading Scaffolding Orginisation of with shall remain confidential on their request.

The best one can do is to include a Safe System of Work and a Method Statement with the Orginisation Induction Training and inclue in Tool Box Talks.

I have attached a Safe System of Work Doc---in the absence of a Calibrated Mechcanical Device---this is the best I can come up with---can anyone expand ???

Garry...
 

Attachments

  • Scaffolding Procedures - Copy.doc
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Nice one Gary, especially like the standard disclaimer in the summary, can no one take responsibility for the advice or information provided?

I have attached a Safe System of Work Doc---in the absence of a Calibrated Mechcanical Device---this is the best I can come up with---can anyone expand

Why is there an absence of calibrated mechanical device? Would any old torque spanner not do the job or am I just not getting it?
 
Had a brief spell in the power tool industry. (Trying to get out of scaffolding. But once a scaffolder always a scaffolder!)

Bosch spend a lot of money on the grip tech side of these tools, as do many other suppliers in relation to white finger. I have always thought it would be great to have a small battery pack in the end of the spanner, mostly when striking!!

When the crickly was brought out I bet some said I like putting my sheets on with nails!!

Change is good, but as we have seen in scaffolding change needs to be thought about. Don't run before you can walk. Get the torque right the tool will last longer or get smaller. As many scaffolders as chippies. Bet they we p***d when the Americans started firing nails in with gas !!

Great idea needs a proper application. First endorsement for the SCCR maybe!!!
 
aom

Yes, the old Torque Devise would do the Job---just no one uses it to Erect---a Powered Devise would remove or reduce RSI and Rapid Deployment...

Garry...
 
Gary, I see from your procedure document the proffered value is between 40 & 80 nm. We completed a small job not too far from my house on Friday where 3 experienced spanner hands and 1 trainee built separate parts of the job and it will be easily identifiable who built what exactly including myself. If I can blag a loan of a torque spanner from a fitter I will check all fittings and tell you exactly what I find, I'm prepared to stick my neck out and say at least 90 - 95% will be within your stated limits but it would be interesting to know for sure.
 
philliosmaximus said:
Garry is an over tighted fitting a waste of time and energy and makes the job no stronger ?
Click to expand...

A waste of time, energy and a fitting as well as it just stretches them and could actually leave a job weaker in my humble opinion.
 
The fitting has a torque ratio because if over tightened the thread is weaker. This means either the thread with snap or the bolt will strip its internal thread which will result in failed fittings, no end a problems or just a sagging lift!!
 
Phil

Anything outwith the optimum could be perceaved ar a waist of time and energy---floying a dead horse comes to mind...

over tighting will not nessesarly make the Strucure Safer, indeed, over Torque can damage the Component and Tube---fractinal stress, bolt creep, gouging and thus reducing the Tube Wall are but a few. Statutory Requirements and BS are there to iliminate precoursers---these Engineering Principals are there to Regulate the Uniformaty of Frictional Stresses.

If these Statutory Requirements and B. S.'s are not complied with then Technicaly there is not a Lawful Scaffold in the Land---and to follow on how would it apply in aCourt of Law if an Investigation found that B.S. 1139 had not been applied ???---its all about Mitigation...

Garry...
 
AOM i was always told to tighten the granny out of fittings when i started and its always stuck with me 31 years later i have noticed that some of my fittings have the nuts thread worn out, but i always thought it was a just manufactures using bad steel for the nuts, so there may well be a lesson for me to learn here and my wrist,neck and shoulders might not ache as much. Iam gonna buy a torque wrench tighten a double to 50kn/m and see how tight that feels, let you know how it goes mate :) :) :)
 
i got taught on my part one ,at bircham,that when the nut is tightened,when you get a bite on the tube,its just a quarter turn.and thats what the setting tightness was.
 
philliosmaximus said:
AOM i was always told to tighten the granny out of fittings when i started and its always stuck with me 31 years later i have noticed that some of my fittings have the nuts thread worn out, but i always thought it was a just manufactures using bad steel for the nuts, so there may well be a lesson for me to learn here and my wrist,neck and shoulders might not ache as much. Iam gonna buy a torque wrench tighten a double to 50kn/m and see how tight that feels, let you know how it goes mate :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Nice one Phill, should make interesting viewing. As for tighten the granny out off fittings, I can understand why that info could of been passed onto you as a trainee as all the trainee's that I come across at the moment think their handling fine china and tighten fittings like they did with their mechano set, so I could see how a lead hand could tell young boy's that.
 
Could still depend on the size of your guns!!

How can everyone tighten a fitting the same?

This is a point that has been around since the wheel had nuts to hold it on?

May not cause a problem but in twenty years I've seen about six doubles fail due to being over tightened & snap & loads of fittings wear the nut spins without tightening. Could be a collapse or just a problem.

But in this day & age needs looking at!!
 
ragscaff said:
Could still depend on the size of your guns!!

How can everyone tighten a fitting the same?

This is a point that has been around since the wheel had nuts to hold it on?

May not cause a problem but in twenty years I've seen about six doubles fail due to being over tightened & snap & loads of fittings wear the nut spins without tightening. Could be a collapse or just a problem.

But in this day & age needs looking at!!
Click to expand...

I've never ever encountered a problem due to a fitting not being fastened adequately.
Tighten your fittings up until you feel it taking a nice purchase on the gate - and then give it a half turn - Perfectly adequate.
Scaffolding is so over engineered (and I'm sure we've all struck plenty of jobs with totally loose fittings all over the place) that the odd fitting here and there is not going to make any difference if it's not tightened adaquately to withstand the desired slip resistance.
You see kids tighten up fittings like they're trying to shear through the tube.
You're only streching the fitting lads!
 
As I said could be just a problem!!

Use a lot of hired gear in my job 30% of clips do not do up on the tube 100%.

Erect with temp braces & standards shows the weak fittings!!.

Threads will stretch over time!!

Not saying that 96% of scaffolders will experience faults with fittings failing. But HSE rules will want close to 100% to be safe. So if you need a tool to do the fittings up it needs to be for purpose!!


:rolleyes:

Ragscaff
 
desp contact hilti directly they'll sort a deal out for your lads.

try this number:08000830855
 
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