Training scaffolders Through SCCR

i got a question lads , a building company we work for inspect the scaffold once a week as required and it is always the site forman /site agent that does the inspection , they always sign "in good order" no matter what they find (and are very happy to do their own adaptions rather then pay us to do them) , we do our own monthly inspections and have plenty to say, is their inspections legal ? how do you deem competent ?
 
yes mate he told the first thing on the agenda was who was getting the 1st round in.lol
 
that man was me ...... how do i claim expenses back
 
Scaffarobbo

Do you think there is a place for Bolt-on Offshore Scaffold Training ???

Garry...

Only the H&S side of things as I feel learning on the job is the best way , look ,listen and learn is how I have progressed through all my time in scaffolding . I feel there should be elements to training that supercedes things such as the MIST course .These are money making schemes to the providers and have no real impact on H&S offshore, were as a bolt on to C
ISRS giving advice in working offshore would be a much better proviso .
I have joined ths SCCR as I feel it may give us a voice in applying common sence offshore and with guys like yourself Garry to call upon it can only be a step forward . Cheers matey .
 
phill

I would prefer to see 3rd Party Non-Bias Statutory Scaffold Inspections and Commissioning Agents being introduced as a Statutory Requirement OR a the very least Best Practice. A Principal awarding them selfs 10 out of 10 for Inspections is questionable...Ask to see the Site Foreman's Inspection Credentials---after all they're quick enough to ask to see ours...

Garry...
 
hope you got the reciept to put through your firm.lol. we ant got owt in the pot as yet. what did you think about the sccr olympics next may in cornwall.. Im running the bar.lol.. we have got alot of work to do pal and could do with you sorting out a msn account so we can have conference talks.. That goes for ALL committee members....


Phill if thats what the customers like to do then thats upto them and explain when they have to stand up in court and explain why somebody has died because of their incompatency..

ALL site managers should now be doing the supervisors course and the 2 day advanced inspection course which will learn them absolutely nothing in 2 days but they will then be walking round with a cisrs advanced inspector card and pulling all our work.. I wont say anymore on that matter.. personally will everybody who ends up in court over this please put all the blame at Dave Mosely please...
 
yeh sounds like a good crack , need volume though to make it work , yeh il have a look at msn allways thought that was kids stuff ha ha
 
Scaffarobbo

I agree that on the Job Training is and allways will be the best way to expand ones Scaffolding experiance---Do you think there is a Place for Dedicated Teams of Seasoned Vetran Mentors/Coaches ?.

Garry...
 
Scaffarobbo

I agree that on the Job Training is and allways will be the best way to expand ones Scaffolding experiance---Do you think there is a Place for Dedicated Teams of Seasoned Vetran Mentors/Coaches ?.

Garry...

Yes , this is what is missing from todays training techniques .
 
Scaffarobbo

I agree, the Larger Scaffolding Service Companies depend largely on the GOOD WILL of Seasoned Scaffold Erectors to Mentor/Coach the Novice Green Hands which are entering into our Industry.

How many times have Green Hand Novice Scaff landed on an Installation/Construction Project with little knowledge of the Equipment and Procedures and or indeed the techniques required to erect a specific Scaffold Structure in a Safe and Competent manner---THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN...

Garry...
 
Very true Gary, I remember my first trip off shore, picked up from the yard in a taxi hoping the next guy on the run would be full of experience and take me under his wing. The first thing he asked me when he got into the car was if I had ever been off before, I thought the best thing to do was declare my inexperience and he went chalk white and informed me it was his first trip as well.(taxi driver nearly died laughing) That trip could have ended in disaster as it was all under deck work and we had no knowledge of procedures or to be honest how to do the job safely at all, luckily enough when we got there we discovered that big Gaz Stewart was our foreman who was only to delighted to do the radio watch and tell the dummies where to put each tube.
 
aom

Youz were very fortunate indeed to have Gaz directing the Operations---I have know other Scaffolding Foremen not to be so supportive and sent the Scaff back to the Beach and NRB'd them.

Perhaps this is an Issue that SCCR would like to expand on and indeed raise in the forthcoming October Meeting ?.

It is ironic to think that it is the NON-MEMBERS of NASC that take the initiative to Mentor/Coach their home grown Scaffs---yet the Blue Chip Service Companies only want to recruit experienced Scaffs---how many of our young Blood Scaffs have tried to advance their Career Path only to be told " we are really lookin for Guys who have been Offshore before and have experience of this environment " if you dont fall into this category they'r fecked...

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What would it take for SCCR to open a facility which would give a Green Hand an insight into Scaffold Specialisims...Bolt-on Training---a facility where there is Steal Work to erect Scaffolds---mock-up scenario's---taking the Green Hand from conception to completion of a Scaffold Structure ?

Would this Training surpass any thing that CITB/NASC has in place at the moment, furthermore, would the Service Co. then have to recognize this Training when a prospective new start applies for a Job ???
 
Garry,

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it would be too difficult to surpass anything the CITB had to offer at the moment, and I'm not just talking about my personal experience with training, I'm talking about what the young team tell me on their return. I agree, most scaffs regardless of age could benefit from bolt on training especially from steel structures. I know it would excite the pair I've got at college at the moment instead of boring them to tears or worse shutting them down when they ask a question, just because is not an answer.

I fear the real challenge would be to get people to recognise this training as most training without the citb stamp of approval is OK until something goes wrong and then it becomes insufficient training. Please don't take this as pouring cold water on a good idea as I am just a small minded country boy, but love them or loathe them, the citb is here to stay and I feel our efforts would be better served by encouraging them to improve their training to a more real world standard and to include working off steel structures.

One of the young boy's called me Saturday night and asked me what the difference is between putting brace on with 2 swivels and how we usually do it double to swivel as his instructor failed to give him an answer. I know he may have asked the question wrong or the instructor was fed up that day but for gods sake that is why I send these boy's to them, if a young one shows an interest give him 5 minutes of your time, sit the whole class down and explain it.

I suppose the other thing we would need to bear in mind that any opinion on here is quite one sided at the moment, it would be nice to hear what the citb thought of the situation, maybe they are as unhappy as us, let's hope so.
 
Only need a yard!!! Hmmm that would be cheap! Where would it be?

Would also need a rake of materials, classroom(s), instructors who would, I suspect, want payement for their services, an expensive and detailed H&S policy - covering a plethora of different scenarios, stationary, an office with staff (who might, I suspect, require payement), a website, advertising, gas and electricity, a canteen, toilet and washing facilities, PPE, security, car parking, accreditation from the CITB. Oh, you'll also need to convince hundreds of scaffolding contractors & thousands of construction/power & utility, local and central governments, and pretty much everyone else who employ the use of scaffolding services that it's acually worth taking a risk with, when in their eyes, they have a perfectly good scheme already up and running.

I totally agree with and admire all the lads on here who recognise the need to improve the current training system and are trying to be pro-active in trying to change things for the better.

In my opinion, the best starting point here, after the HSE, would be to try and secure a meeting with one or two of the major construction contractors - Carillion, Bovis Lend Lease, Balfour's etc and basically tell them, as experienced scaffolders/managers/design engineers/labourers, that we think that the current training regime is basically, totally unfit for purpose.
Without the customer on your side, you're nothing.

Good luck.
 
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Very true Gary, I remember my first trip off shore, picked up from the yard in a taxi hoping the next guy on the run would be full of experience and take me under his wing. The first thing he asked me when he got into the car was if I had ever been off before, I thought the best thing to do was declare my inexperience and he went chalk white and informed me it was his first trip as well.(taxi driver nearly died laughing) That trip could have ended in disaster as it was all under deck work and we had no knowledge of procedures or to be honest how to do the job safely at all, luckily enough when we got there we discovered that big Gaz Stewart was our foreman who was only to delighted to do the radio watch and tell the dummies where to put each tube.

I have found myself working with greenhands on numerous occasions and try to get them involved and on the tools as soon as , usually working days on the spanners and days off. Although I have came across plenty of guys who think greenhand you will be labouring pal , these guys are tossers .
 
phil181

With the infrastructure already in place perhaps we should concentrate on convincing CITB/NASC to re-vamp and Bolt-on Programs to the existing the curriculum---But will they be prepared to enter into Joint Consultation ???

Garry...
 
phil181

With the infrastructure already in place perhaps we should concentrate on convincing CITB/NASC to re-vamp and Bolt-on Programs to the existing the curriculum---But will they be prepared to enter into Joint Consultation ???

Garry...

Well in short Garry, no. I doubt it very much.

Who's going to admit that they've been selling a shoddy product whist claiming to be industry experts?

Thoughts?
 
Scaffarobo, it's the only way to do it. 3 man gang means your on the deck every 3rd day unless there is something specific to change that.

Gary,

Joint consultation, it's the future. Definitely something for the SCCR to discuss come October. The only man I have seen on here with any connection with the training centre in Renfrew is , it would be nice to hear what he thinks of the situation.

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Well in short Garry, no. I doubt it very much.

Who's going to admit that they've been selling a shoddy product whist claiming to be industry experts?

Thoughts?

That's true phil but surely none of us are perfect and as scaffs no one is more customer focused and driven than us. If we were to go to the citb with concerns over quality of training the few people I have met would listen. I'm not saying they are in a position to dramatically change things over night but you have to start somewhere.
 
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phi181

What is to be done ?---are we to accept the status quo ?---what strategy would you adopt ?...

Garry...

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aom

In the interest of retaining their Positions as Instructors/Teachers it may be unfair to ask individuals to comment on their Employers Curriculum---HOWEVER, there are those in a position to challenge the status quo...

I concur, defiantly one for the October Pre-Meeting Breif...
 
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