Tickets? Do you think they are as important as they are made out to be??
gary wheaton
Well-known member
So how does a trainee get experience before he gets his tickets if he ain't aloud to scaffold ,when he gets his tickets he needs to be able to work on his own
orsscaffolding
Well-known member
BTW Jason are you bored or what ?
J
Jason-Gibbs
Guest
Its just a hypothetical question.
What do members of the Forum think.
Tickets or Experience.
Me? Id like a bit of both, but one or the other, id have to chose Tickets.
---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------
On my daily 2 hour train journey home... can i be anything but bored?? lol.
Flinty
Moderator
Trainees can scaffold under the watchful eye of a basic or advanced. Green card lads (labourers) I believe cannot do any scaffolding work.
Dangeruss with 2 s's, nobody uses Durex, over priced crap! Just wrap it in a plastic bag or put it in a hole with zero chance of long term problems.
gary wheaton
Well-known member
Jay were did you get a start you weren't out long hope it goes well
It depends on the guy he's working with and yes it better be someone with enough experience underneath his belt cause bad habits creates bad habits.
If he or she is new I wait a few weeks to see of what they are capable of then I'll take them up onto a scaffold if not then they just pass gear or you put them in a chain which everyone loves to do.
I've seen it too many times I get a green leaf with them habits and it pisses me off cause now I can try to get rid of them.
The ****** up thing here is that people can get a journeyman ticket in 2 weeks without any experience which is bad for the business but nobody gives a damn anymore it's all about the money.
Experience is created in the field not at school and also with whom they are working with.
Everyone has an opinion, so for what it's worth here is mine. I am constantly surprised by the sheer number of young men trying to improve themselves by paying for their own tickets then going out expecting top dollar but couldn't put a job up if their life depended on it. The other side of the coin though, is clients refusing to let uncarded men on their site, so the pressure on guys like me to get the men carded immediately is immense. The result of this panic as far as I can tell, is a well qualified workforce with all the tools but no idea. We probably all have to take our fair share of the responsobility for this anomaly, but for me you answered your own question Jason, a good mixture of both is ideal.
Now get a job ya fat hairy cockney c@nt.
Now get a job ya fat hairy cockney c@nt.
S
southernpoofter
Guest
Personally i think its hard to achive both with the present training method...as i had said in a previous thread obviously experiance comes with time...so surely a system that allows you to go from zero- hero within a cpl of years is flawed...
A sensible minimum time limit should in my opinion be imposed, between being allowed to advance to the next ticket...
To only allow a trainee ticket validity of 18mths seems like a cash push to get the person onto the grid...people learn @ differnt speeds as well as not necessarily having either the funding or company to put them through..
To allow a basic2 to progress to advance in such a short time & tbh b4 he's even really learnt to think for himself & see a job in his minds eye...let alone read drawings etc is just plain stupid
I know we all want to earn as much as we can . & some will believe that can only be achieved with an advanced card, while others on pricework & streetwork will say max earnings can only be achieved through hard graft & knowing what ur doin & doin it as quickly as possible .
So surley by revewing the times between tickets would benifit not only our knowledge but would stop newbies being paid overinflated wages to over inflated egos.
I have personnally trainned proberbly over 20+ guys over the years. & i have never without exception been able to call any off them good scaffs till theyve been turnning a spanner for @least 5 years....& i dont mean competant- you can do that after a couple of years...i mean in the respect that they can look at any job and without question put up a tidy& safe job and at the same time earning money for both of us...
So Jay my answer would be change the system & have both experiance & qualifications
A sensible minimum time limit should in my opinion be imposed, between being allowed to advance to the next ticket...
To only allow a trainee ticket validity of 18mths seems like a cash push to get the person onto the grid...people learn @ differnt speeds as well as not necessarily having either the funding or company to put them through..
To allow a basic2 to progress to advance in such a short time & tbh b4 he's even really learnt to think for himself & see a job in his minds eye...let alone read drawings etc is just plain stupid
I know we all want to earn as much as we can . & some will believe that can only be achieved with an advanced card, while others on pricework & streetwork will say max earnings can only be achieved through hard graft & knowing what ur doin & doin it as quickly as possible .
So surley by revewing the times between tickets would benifit not only our knowledge but would stop newbies being paid overinflated wages to over inflated egos.
I have personnally trainned proberbly over 20+ guys over the years. & i have never without exception been able to call any off them good scaffs till theyve been turnning a spanner for @least 5 years....& i dont mean competant- you can do that after a couple of years...i mean in the respect that they can look at any job and without question put up a tidy& safe job and at the same time earning money for both of us...
So Jay my answer would be change the system & have both experiance & qualifications
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bigfish
Moderator
marra watson
Moderator
how would this stand if say you have your basic ticket and its run out and the sh1t hits the fan b4 you do your cscs would the deem you uncompitant ?
put it this way would you rather leave you 3 months old babby wiht a child minder thats had a few kids her self and bene doing it 20 years or some 1 right out of college ?
simples
pull out and put it on her face
Good post SP
---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------
I would say yes,let the training centres train them and prove competency,and get the portfolio to feck,we all know it's complete b*llox anyway:notrust:
I have had my eyes opened with these portfolio's. Can't see them going anywhere any time soon though.
marra watson
Moderator
good post sp
---------- post added at 08:55 pm ---------- previous post was at 08:52 pm ----------
i would say yes,let the training centres train them and prove competency,and get the portfolio to feck,we all know it's complete b*llox anyway:notrust:
any then maby b4 given the full ticket have them get job sheets signed for say 6 months or 1,000 man hours thats got to be easier to do than the feking portfolios lol
What law is that instructor??
A man with a ticket is qualified. not nessessarily competent.
In the hse manual it says a person must be competent to do a job.
Not changed yet to qualified as far as I know.
instructor
Well-known member
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I think you will find the CISRS have the right to deem a person competent ie tickets with the scheme that has the backing of the HSE,Main contractors,insurance companys
charlie1970
Well-known member
Tie yourself to the dropper . Ha ha ( ****)
S
southernpoofter
Guest
I dont think its necessary for aditional time to be spent @ the colledge..i definitely think the format should change ...too much time is wasted there.when other things could be taught....
As a. Company we should be allowed to let these trainees & pt1s gain more experiance with us b4 we send them to colledge...because no-one fails the course, there is no fall back on the employers or bad reputaton to be gained through sending guys off that arnt ready. Like alister said we have to have avteainned workforce, and we could continue with the grants etc but this should be opened up to individuals not just companies maybe with the re-introduction ofthe assessed route even...but there has to in my opinion be no time limit to trainee status and a minimum to pt1 & 2....
I'm not gonna state "in the good old days"lol but surely the newbies are better off experiancing work under the guidance of a decent chargehand...the old system we worked to wasn't broke or in need of fixing & produced some of the finest scaffs i ever had the pleasure to work with- many of whom now own their own companies...perhaps, just perhaps we would be better to go back, but with all the money the centres now make i just cant see it happen
---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------
I thought i was the only poof that used to do that lolo
As a. Company we should be allowed to let these trainees & pt1s gain more experiance with us b4 we send them to colledge...because no-one fails the course, there is no fall back on the employers or bad reputaton to be gained through sending guys off that arnt ready. Like alister said we have to have avteainned workforce, and we could continue with the grants etc but this should be opened up to individuals not just companies maybe with the re-introduction ofthe assessed route even...but there has to in my opinion be no time limit to trainee status and a minimum to pt1 & 2....
I'm not gonna state "in the good old days"lol but surely the newbies are better off experiancing work under the guidance of a decent chargehand...the old system we worked to wasn't broke or in need of fixing & produced some of the finest scaffs i ever had the pleasure to work with- many of whom now own their own companies...perhaps, just perhaps we would be better to go back, but with all the money the centres now make i just cant see it happen
---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------
I thought i was the only poof that used to do that lolo
Im listening instructor,but youve yet to convince me, youve mixed competent up with qualified again.
When you watch a man at work,you would know if hes competent or not whatever trade.
Thats laughable,a newbie part 1 no experience being competent.
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