joebag
Well-known member
Can regulators/training providers justify this?
if im being held to account on so many "important" safety issues so can they
if im being held to account on so many "important" safety issues so can they
20 year old advanced scaffolder!
- Thread starter joebag
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rcg172
Well-known member
Can regulators/training providers justify this?
if im being held to account on so many "important" safety issues so can they
Personally, I don't see the issue with the scaffolder holding the card at such a tender age. I had mine when I was 22. I think the issue is whether or not the guy is any good. Let's not forget that there are some good boys out there who are capable.
joebag
Well-known member
not taking anything away from you mate but im sorry i dont see after two years how anyone could possibly hold enough knowledge or experience to be classed as an advanced scaffolder,able and expected to perform every task in the scaffolding industry,it may be on a rare occasion someone gets to the relevant levels in a short space of time but managing men time pressure everything comes into it,
i believe it cheapens the card at a time when we need to show what worth a advanced scaffolder can give,although my point on this is basically how hypocrytical the bodies are controlling our industry when safety is pushed at every turn yet a spotty upstart can get his advanced card so soon
i believe it cheapens the card at a time when we need to show what worth a advanced scaffolder can give,although my point on this is basically how hypocrytical the bodies are controlling our industry when safety is pushed at every turn yet a spotty upstart can get his advanced card so soon
Havespannerwilltravel
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In theory the 20 year old will have attended the relevant courses, had the required time to gain practical experience, undergone several assessments and had his portfolio checked and signed off. This should mean he was competent as long as the assessors were competent as well!!
joebag
Well-known member
but do you think thats right hswt,i personally think it should be five years for advanced,but also with everything extra we are being asked to get qualified in dont you think this contradicts the message of safety being pushed at us all the time?p.s. hows the house getting on
Havespannerwilltravel
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If you compare it to sending a young man to Afghanistan who has had basic training and is probably around 19 years old then its probably enough to be advanced scaff at 20 joebag. It also depends on the individual...some guys take to scaffolding like a duck to water while some never grasp it despite doing course after course.
p.s. House is coming along, on schedule, just fabricating steel roof trusses at moment. Will post some more pictures soon.
p.s. House is coming along, on schedule, just fabricating steel roof trusses at moment. Will post some more pictures soon.
At least we've moved on from the days of guys running around site erecting complex scaffold structures without ANY training.
Certain individuals on this forum want a return to those dark days - and in the process will destroy our industry if they're given a platform to spout their self-serving nonsense.
Certain individuals on this forum want a return to those dark days - and in the process will destroy our industry if they're given a platform to spout their self-serving nonsense.
joebag
Well-known member
agreed phil but its the quality that should be looked at,i learned a lot from my courses and apply that every day,but i still think experience plays a massive part in the industry and thats being pushed aside for cash cow training centres to get people in and out to make profit,their needs to be a balance but also responsibility on the regulators/training providers side,,,,,
when they push stupid issues and go after blokes for simple errors yet will turn blokes out with 2 years experience to possibly run a job on a oil rig doing hangers everyday i think thats morally wrong at least and they need to be shown up and held to account as much as we are !
when they push stupid issues and go after blokes for simple errors yet will turn blokes out with 2 years experience to possibly run a job on a oil rig doing hangers everyday i think thats morally wrong at least and they need to be shown up and held to account as much as we are !
So what's the answer then? The working at height regs state that anyone carrying out work at height needs to be TRAINED in the job they are carrying out.
That aside, we all saw lads getting signed off as competent on the old ECITB scheme byt heir employers. What's going to stop that happening again with a similar scheme?
joebag
Well-known member
the answer for me is to make this training watertight,the tie issue in not being taught in your part 1 or 2 is massive in my eyes,
make them explain and back up the evidence they have for bringing in new safety issues ie
if a new regulation is brought in because of a safety concern make them show exactly the stats were that safety issue is so prevellent,not just creating fear to make more money for providers/inspectors/regulators who sometimes are the same entity
people seem to be putting faith in the fact the people making these rules are doing it for the good and right reasons,my word look at every other walk of life,you leave them unchecked and they run riot for profit and self gain!
also i like the step,but dont tell me thats not a real conundrum for the working at heights regs,its what suits at the moment not whats safe and right for us,the people who make up the industry!
make them explain and back up the evidence they have for bringing in new safety issues ie
if a new regulation is brought in because of a safety concern make them show exactly the stats were that safety issue is so prevellent,not just creating fear to make more money for providers/inspectors/regulators who sometimes are the same entity
people seem to be putting faith in the fact the people making these rules are doing it for the good and right reasons,my word look at every other walk of life,you leave them unchecked and they run riot for profit and self gain!
also i like the step,but dont tell me thats not a real conundrum for the working at heights regs,its what suits at the moment not whats safe and right for us,the people who make up the industry!
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Who's gaining? Both the NASC & CISRS are non-profit bodies.
joebag
Well-known member
fuk me phil you are my mum
you dont honestly think that nasc or cisrs dont make gains from changes in the industry do you ?
is nasc non profit phil ?
you dont honestly think that nasc or cisrs dont make gains from changes in the industry do you ?
is nasc non profit phil ?
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Can regulators/training providers justify this?
if im being held to account on so many "important" safety issues so can they
To be honest, youcan not buy experience no matter what card you hold! We learn new things everyday in this trade.
joebag
Well-known member
the point for me would be to represent all people and issues concerned with that industry,its like the mp,s for me,on one hand saying they are impartial yet knowing at a later date or even at the same time being employed by a segment of the industry with vested interests !
Why should anyone invest time, money and effort in something that people who contribute absolutely nothing want a part of?
How many people come on here slating NASC guidance TG20:08/SG4:10 etc. and then say that they are working to those standards?
If it's so easy, why not produce their own scaffolding manuals and guidance?
joebag
Well-known member
i have no choice but to work to those standards phil,i believe those standards werent invented magically overnight by nasc,i believe it was years of experience gained from scaffolding that got them their foot in the door,now their foot is in the door they are going after their own interests with nobody keeping them checked and balanced !
That doesn't really mean anything mate.
joebag
Well-known member
it does to me and a lot of blokes i know phil,safety and fear is being used as a platform to make money and scaffoldings squeezed so tightly at the moment
people are starting to look at the reasons behind these changes and who benefits from them,at the end of the day these changes are supposed to benefit us,,,
so why do so many scaffs feel like they only serve the people making them up !
people are starting to look at the reasons behind these changes and who benefits from them,at the end of the day these changes are supposed to benefit us,,,
so why do so many scaffs feel like they only serve the people making them up !
So why not produce your own set of guidlines if you don't like someone else's?
Fact is that the HSE would be producing the scaffolding manuals and guidlines if the NASC hadn't negotiated an alternative.
As for H&S being used as a money making exercise - speak to the insurance companies mate. Most of the rules on site - glasses/gloves etc. are not even the contractors standards, they are driven by the client, who in turn are dictated to by their insurance company.
It's easy to blame other people, but the facts are that most of the people who complain can offer no practical or legally acceptable alternative.