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Dandaps
4th September 2013, 07:55 PM
Why do HMRC think they can hold onto my money that my company was due for months literally claimed in April phoned about a month ago and they said if you have not received it by OCTOBER 22nd!! then ring us again. Yet when they want their vat its instantly, pisses me right off. CIS = TAKE THE ****:mad:.
I go through this stupid cat and mouse game every year. Surely Cis does more harm to businesses than good?

southernpoofter
4th September 2013, 08:03 PM
Oh m8 sounds like u got a shiit accountant to me - i get mine within 3 weeks of submitting the accounts

Gerscaff
4th September 2013, 08:06 PM
Im The Same Southern, 4 Weeks Maximum And The Moneys In The Bank.

Dandaps
4th September 2013, 08:11 PM
Seriously?
He tells my hes made the refund application every april . When I phone HMRC they allways tell me they have got it all there everything the amount I'm owed everything all on screen but the current turnaround is x amount of weeks. Coukld it be my Hmrc accounts office is sh1t if not then my accountant gonna get the boot

recruit1
4th September 2013, 08:12 PM
lesson to be learnt is always keep some saved for a rainy day pal !

Bobbysupascaff
4th September 2013, 08:14 PM
Oh m8 sounds like u got a shiit accountant to me - i get mine within 3 weeks of submitting the accounts

I got mine 4 days after and all my tax I paid;)

Dandaps
4th September 2013, 08:15 PM
I do PAL, I got that much on I could do with a new wagon Pal, Yet I'm sat waiting for a big fat cheque to come through my door pal rather asking my bank to fund it,

Bobbysupascaff
4th September 2013, 08:16 PM
By the way has anyone ever had a paye rebate yet???

Gerscaff
4th September 2013, 08:16 PM
Could Well Be The Office Dandaps, If The Accountant Is Submitting The Books In Time Then It Must Be The Tax Office Thats The Hold Up. But Your Not Unique, I Know Some Labour Only Subbies (Like Me )Have Struggled For The Past Three Years To Get There Rebates For Christmas. If You Are Owe Them A Goddam Penny They Will Sell Your House.

Dandaps
4th September 2013, 09:00 PM
Yer thats my thinking Gerscaff I use a chartered accountants who deal with some big clients, I phone accounts office they confirm the figures etc but say that they have big backlog. I just think it's a stupid system not other businesses have to deal with this joke just us lot in construction, basically they hold 20% from every job we do till they feel they can be bothered to pay it back, this is 20% of my cash flow each year that I could use for gear, trucks, yard rent or new staff

recruit1
4th September 2013, 09:11 PM
without being offensive ' each and everyone of you should be ashamed / supposingly in charge of men and material in high rsk job '' yet you cant phone the ax man without being baffled ...
no wonder the games rined:laugh:

gunslinger757
4th September 2013, 09:21 PM
Yer thats my thinking Gerscaff I use a chartered accountants who deal with some big clients, I phone accounts office they confirm the figures etc but say that they have big backlog. I just think it's a stupid system not other businesses have to deal with this joke just us lot in construction, basically they hold 20% from every job we do till they feel they can be bothered to pay it back, this is 20% of my cash flow each year that I could use for gear, trucks, yard rent or new staff

don't you turnover enough to qualify for a CIS deduction exemption. it used to be a CIS 6 when it was CIS cards, the cis 4 was where they took the 18% from you, as it was at the time!

Dandaps
4th September 2013, 09:26 PM
Sorry mate I'm not baffled by the tax I just think the CIS tax is unfair and restricts my company, I take it that you have had good dealing with HMRC? I do save for a rainy day and I have got the lads wages in the bank every Friday and don't owe a penny to anybody at moment but when I have submitted everything on time and pay them on time then I expect the same in respect from them. I am going to apply for gross status but cant seem to find the time at the moment as recently I am working nearly 12 hrs every day and for the past 3 weekends and after phoning them before I know I need to set a good hour and half aside to get through to the right person.
seems I'm not the only one in this position

CIS - Unfair and Criminal [Archive] - UK Business Forums (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-199606.html)

do you have any tips recruit1 on how I can run my business better
ps no offence taken

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

yes I qualify but have never applied, need give them a ring tomarrow

gunslinger757
4th September 2013, 09:29 PM
Sorry mate I'm not baffled by the tax I just think the CIS tax is unfair and restricts my company, I take it that you have had good dealing with HMRC? I do save for a rainy day and I have got the lads wages in the bank every Friday and don't owe a penny to anybody at moment but when I have submitted everything on time and pay them on time then I expect the same in respect from them. I am going to apply for gross status but cant seem to find the time at the moment as recently I am working nearly 12 hrs every day and for the past 3 weekends and after phoning them before I know I need to set a good hour and half aside to get through to the right person.
seems I'm not the only one in this position

CIS - Unfair and Criminal [Archive] - UK Business Forums (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-199606.html)

do you have any tips recruit1 on how I can run my business better
ps no offence taken

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

yes I qualify but have never applied, need give them a ring tomarrow

well worth it. i used to find having 18% deducted and having to pay the vat crippling. We did get it all back eventually, but it was a complicated process!

Dandaps
4th September 2013, 09:31 PM
cheers gunslinger gonna sort this out with em

gunslinger757
4th September 2013, 09:35 PM
without being offensive ' each and everyone of you should be ashamed / supposingly in charge of men and material in high rsk job '' yet you cant phone the ax man without being baffled ...
no wonder the games rined:laugh:

welcome to the forum, it's a while since we had a troll on here. the last one was robert but he had to leave cos he was "on the other bus" if you get me!:blink1:

scaffy 1980
4th September 2013, 10:05 PM
By the way has anyone ever had a paye rebate yet???

Had one last yr bobby, for the yrs 09-12. Got nearly 3k back happy days as paid the deposit on our car..

Bobbysupascaff
4th September 2013, 10:07 PM
Very happy days then fella ;) can't wait till April now lol

scaffy 1980
4th September 2013, 10:12 PM
You not had one for a while then pal?

Bobbysupascaff
4th September 2013, 10:23 PM
I got 2 this year one for last year and one for the year before now that was on CIS now the previous 10 years (since I left school) I've been on the cards, I received a cheque out of the blue 3 years ago saying I had payed too much tax for the year previous I think but apart from that I've had no money back for all the other years. Can I claim back any of it/ how far can I go back?

scaffy 1980
4th September 2013, 10:51 PM
Im not sure pal. I've never done a tax return, i've just had them drop on my door mat. Knowing my luck i'll get one next year saying i ow them....

Bobbysupascaff
4th September 2013, 10:52 PM
Now uve jinxed urself den lol

scaffy 1980
4th September 2013, 11:09 PM
Now uve jinxed urself den lol

Not the first time pal..

BetterTAX
5th September 2013, 12:05 PM
I do sympathise, Dandaps. HMRC can really drag their heels. Luckily the usual turnaround from HMRC for individual tax returns submitted is about 3 weeks... unless they decide to look more closely at the return - then woe betide you if you should chase them on it. We always warn people about chasing HMRC too often. Out of cussedness they will put the file back into security and let it sit there even longer :mad:.

As for PAYE tax returns - please make sure you keep your receipts for any expenditures. Also keep a diary of mileage, sites gone to, for how many days/ weeks etc.

And yes, PAYE tax refunds do happen :).

Havespannerwilltravel
5th September 2013, 12:11 PM
Cut out all the hassle of dealing with the taxman by getting a job in the Gulf.

stonedrose1
5th September 2013, 05:16 PM
Why do HMRC think they can hold onto my money that my company was due for months literally claimed in April phoned about a month ago and they said if you have not received it by OCTOBER 22nd!! then ring us again. Yet when they want their vat its instantly, pisses me right off. CIS = TAKE THE ****:mad:.
I go through this stupid cat and mouse game every year. Surely Cis does more harm to businesses than good?

Sent you a PM Dandaps with the mob I use, though the nice people at HMRC assured me that if you do it yourself online, you'll be paid out within a few weeks. Can't be arsed myself though on top of all the other paper work you have to deal with in this game these days.

Mr.B
5th September 2013, 06:20 PM
By the way has anyone ever had a paye rebate yet???

Every year since 08/09 when I was made aware of it

marra watson
5th September 2013, 06:27 PM
what can ya claim for dont say everything but for eg if am down working atg sutch and sutch and the actuall yard is half a mile away form the office and i live 22 miles from both can i calim for going to the yard or not?, and how the fek does cis work do thye tax you b4 paying you or do you have to keep it in the bakc to pay your own tax ?

Dandaps
5th September 2013, 06:45 PM
Cis Marra is when you take on a job from a firm, say I invoice joe bloggs building firm for £2000.00 when it becomes time for them to pay me they will withhold £400.00 and give it inland revenue, at the end of the tax year I can then make a claim to get it all refunded. The problem I'm facing is some firms are on the scheme and I get statements at the end of each month some lesser well run firms say there on the scheme but I have to chase them for a statement and trust they have paid it one firm I have done a job for have never issued a statement when I did a job after chasing them for ages. then when It becomes time for inland revenue to pay me back they are taking up to 6 months, all the while I have to make up the 20% missing from my cash flow all year.
basically a stupid run around creating more hassle than needed.

Bobbysupascaff
5th September 2013, 08:58 PM
Every year since 08/09 when I was made aware of it

Thanks for reply mr b were they as good as a CIS rebate or close of you know what I mean mate

BetterTAX
6th September 2013, 03:31 PM
With PAYE, you can claim back all legitimate work expenses BUT HMRC are getting tougher and tougher all the time and will need evidence of all such expenditures - receipts, of course, are your best bet. Just keep them in an envelope for when you come to do your tax return (or have a tax agent help you with it... but they'll need sight of receipts/ bank statements before submitting the tax return).

When it comes to mileage... If you use your own vehicle (or public transport) to get to different sites (not the yard), then you can claim back mileage/ travel. It's helpful to keep a log/ diary rather than trying to remember where and when.

If you need any advice, as always, give us a quick call.

PAYE is not generally as big a rebate as under CIS, but really it is all down to earnings, tax already paid and legitimate expenses. CIS pay tax (same as PAYE) but because no one is accounting for personal allowances the amount of tax paid is usually too much.

We always advise to watch your tax code too because if you did a tax return in the previous year, HMRC have a habit of adjusting your tax code to reflect that years expenses and the chances of that being the case are zilch, so you end up with a large tax bill at the end of the year :mad:.

The CIS scheme is a good idea in principal, but everyone concerned (contractors paying your tax up front and issuing tax voucher and HMRC just being on it, rather than dragging their heels).

Havespannerwilltravel
11th October 2013, 03:47 PM
Good stuff Rosie. We are now Facebook friends!! Still not seen any pics of you in just your hi viz yet?

Sc@ffolder
11th October 2013, 03:55 PM
Good stuff Rosie. We are now Facebook friends!! Still not seen any pics of you in just your hi viz yet?

Facebook?? ha.
This place, facebook, you sure your a scaff?? or one of those kids fresh out of college wanting to be one? ha, eh lad?

Havespannerwilltravel
11th October 2013, 04:11 PM
Facebook?? ha.
This place, facebook, you sure your a scaff?? or one of those kids fresh out of college wanting to be one? ha, eh lad?

Fresh out of college me dad. Looking to learn from vastly experienced old men like yourself.

Sc@ffolder
11th October 2013, 04:27 PM
Ha, im not your dad, least i dont think so, your mam called elaine, like? ha, hope not.
Just saying like, only thought wee lads would be into that social networking stuff, eh?

Must be a bit of a shaker and mover, ha.

Havespannerwilltravel
11th October 2013, 04:32 PM
I always call older more experienced men dad as a mark of respect.
I like to try and keep in contact with friends in far flung corners of this wonderful world don't you?
Not so much a mover and shaker more a sit still money taker.

Sc@ffolder
11th October 2013, 04:40 PM
Good for you. Take it while you can lad.
Im in rather similar circumstances myself. Let the youngsters do the graft, ill makesure wages are paid.

Though nice to turn a spanner now and then, eh?

Havespannerwilltravel
11th October 2013, 04:43 PM
As long as it's only now and then.
You sound a decent boss you got any jobs going?

Sc@ffolder
11th October 2013, 04:45 PM
No.
Unfortunately not.

BetterTAX
11th October 2013, 04:55 PM
Blimey! Just re-read my own post there (thanks for bringing it to the fore again, HSWT) and was pretty impressed with my own musings :D.

Hmmm, I can assure you, not many can behold the wonder that is me in just a hi vis. I have to be very careful who I unleash that spectacle on!

Sc@ffolder: yeah daddio, get hip with the times, yo yo! FB is the place to be... Well... sometimes!! :) (Nice being friends, huh, HSWT:love:)

Havespannerwilltravel
11th October 2013, 04:57 PM
You can unleash it on me Rosie. I am over 18 (just).

BetterTAX
11th October 2013, 05:24 PM
:bigsmile: You may be over 18 and I know I certainly am, which is another good reason to keep such things away from those of a more sensitive disposition :D

Now stop being naughty!! :amuse:

mightymouse
11th October 2013, 08:00 PM
Bobby, I get a PAYE Rebate EVERY YEAR, it makes no difference if your CIS or PAYE, if it costs you to go to work, thats tax deductible.

Binthere
12th October 2013, 10:30 AM
HMRC. They never give up on screwing you! All through your working life and even after you die.
This is a tale currently unfolding for me. Just passed my 65th birthday and the pension service have contacted me to give me the good news on the amount I will receive. In the build I didn’t quite understand what the deduction of £49.36 p/w for COD meant. Following the receipt of a letter from the HMRC it has all become so clear. Apparently back in the dim days of the 1980’s when I worked for SGB we all received a letter from the tax man inviting us to sign out of contributing to ‘SERPS’ as we were paying in to a company pension. By doing this we would save paying the pension portion of the NI contribution, (so would the bosses on their portion). Being a young man with two young children I, like all my Peers, signed up as it would save me around £30-£40 per month (2% of NI as it was) over the coming years. Now for me the maths do not add up. I worked for SGB for 6 years and probably saved myself about £3400.00 (give or take) but each year from now until I expire my pension will be less by £2566.72. Ah! I hear you all say ‘but you have your company pension’. Yes I do but with the total collapse in annuities the company pension barely compensates the amount garnished from my state pension. When 20% paye is deducted I am in fact taking less than the amount of COD.
My advice to all you younger men (and women) out there is any thing offered to you by these shysters may look like gold but never is.

Binthere
15th October 2013, 10:57 AM
COD deductions saga continued.....

Now convinced that apart from hswt no one is reading this post I have decided to continue with posts on progression for the sake of posterity.

My next step was to check online to see if anyone else felt as hard done by. Amazingly I found a solicitors office specialising in this very thing, at a price. I have not contacted them yet but instead emailed my financial adviser's secretary with a copy of the letters to get their view. They have just replied to say that the HMRC claim is disproportinate and will take it up on my behalf. lets see how the next few weeks pan out.

BetterTAX
15th October 2013, 11:30 AM
Hi Binthere,

I don't think people aren't reading, I think we're more at a loss of what to say.

Many years ago I worked for an insurance company and did service pension schemes, individual and company.

I was around when the opt in and opt out thing happened. I opted out of paying the government state pension too. Luckily, or not, I left after a few years to start a family and my pension thing became paid up... I think, its been a long time!

Anyway, all these years later and a divorce, it made me revisit said pension (financial settlement etc). There is a cash equivalent that can be used to purchase a pension when my time comes.

The big problem, as we all know, with these pension schemes was market crashes and bad investments by the holding companies - that's why any private pension is worth tuppence now :mad:.

Recently I looked to take the fund out and invest it elsewhere (I had someone advising me). I was told an amount was available but if I wanted to move it, they would calculate the actual amount - which then turned out to be considerably less - because of the market at the time.

So it stays where it is, waiting for prices to go up.

I wish you every success - lots of mis-selling of endowment mortgages and pension plans back in the golden days of the 80s. :(

Binthere
15th October 2013, 11:43 AM
Thank you for the input Better Tax. As I noted earlier a few solicitors have latched on to this, as HMRC have been decimating peoples pensions. From what I am reading Hmrc are paying back large proportions where final pensions do not reach prior expectations. The last thing they want is to upset is a group of people who have a lot of time to kill and nothing better to do.

marra watson
16th October 2013, 05:54 PM
bricks and mortar marra that what my money will be going in to

Binthere
16th October 2013, 06:11 PM
bricks and mortar marra that what my money will be going in to

Quite right, as few as 2-4 properties out on rental would set you up. It is the best way. If you do as I did and trust others you will work all your life and end up with virtually nothing much above subsistance.

Dandaps
19th October 2013, 01:13 PM
Got all my paperwork phoned hmrc two weeks ago sorted all the crap out. Today got my cis gross status!
Cheers guys for giving me the kick up the @rse I needed. Should make life a bit easier now

BetterTAX
19th October 2013, 03:05 PM
Good news, Dandaps. Should be much better now - make sure you make the deadlines though! (and don't forget to mention us to your subbies! :))

Dandaps
19th October 2013, 03:12 PM
Will do thanks

Stella Fella
19th October 2013, 05:35 PM
Binthere i agree with you from previous, at the same time when i was a young whippersnapper and used to read and listen to ma & da gripes and others about pension payments i thought yeah wont appen to me, plus i can help you 2 out, now shock ive reached an age where it affects me also and i dont expect to much from Government due to the crisis financially which is down to mismanagement of public funds. (Taxpayers suffer yet again)

Binthere
21st October 2013, 06:50 PM
Just recieved an email from my financial advisor with a full breakdown of the SGB pension which shows the tax man is correct in his workout. So it seem's I did "sell my birthright for a mess of pottage" all those years ago. No matter how vindicated the tax man is, it will never remove the bitter taste I have in my mouth now.

So it seems I must forget about retirement and at 65 start looking for work - Again.

Gerscaff
21st October 2013, 07:47 PM
Binthere A Lot Of People (Not Just Scaffolders) Will Be In Exactly The Same Position As Your Good Self, I Have Came To The Conclusion That This Country Is Jiggered And Having Watched Channel Fours Despatches About Agencies It Just Confirms It.

BetterTAX
22nd October 2013, 09:14 AM
Sorry to hear it Binthere. I think this is a story that we will not be hearing from just you either - as time goes on :(

Binthere
22nd October 2013, 10:09 AM
Sorry to hear it Binthere. I think this is a story that we will not be hearing from just you either - as time goes on :(

An estimated 6 - 7.5 million people affected from what I have read.