nasc and nasa.
- Thread starter dico
- Start date
Rigger
Moderator
This is ground control to Major Dico, take the pills 
Who does then HSE or CISRS/NASC same people or is it the client.
Lets start with youve done your scaffold courses and reached basic or advanced after however long it takes 2 years is it or 3 years cant remember, your ready to earn the money and what are you faced with,need a card to work on the railway, need a card to work offshore, need a card to do confine spaces, need a card to work with asbestos, need a card to work on grid sites, need a health and safety card to work on any site, need a card to work underground, need a card to tag jobs after the 7 day period, how many more have i missed, all in all if you didnt work for a company and just did agency work you would have to spend some serious money to keep up to date with all these cards and courses to be able to carry on working in the scaffold industry. Why every year or 3 years do things have to be renewed all the time at cost when theres been no changes. medical every year to get some cards, yeh maybe if your over a certain age but guys between 20 and 55 whats that all about. why keep changing things most of the changes are made by people that have never held a spanner in there life.
I await to get slaughtered by my comments now let the replies roll in:wacko:
Who does then HSE or CISRS/NASC same people or is it the client.
Lets start with youve done your scaffold courses and reached basic or advanced after however long it takes 2 years is it or 3 years cant remember, your ready to earn the money and what are you faced with,need a card to work on the railway, need a card to work offshore, need a card to do confine spaces, need a card to work with asbestos, need a card to work on grid sites, need a health and safety card to work on any site, need a card to work underground, need a card to tag jobs after the 7 day period, how many more have i missed, all in all if you didnt work for a company and just did agency work you would have to spend some serious money to keep up to date with all these cards and courses to be able to carry on working in the scaffold industry. Why every year or 3 years do things have to be renewed all the time at cost when theres been no changes. medical every year to get some cards, yeh maybe if your over a certain age but guys between 20 and 55 whats that all about. why keep changing things most of the changes are made by people that have never held a spanner in there life.
I await to get slaughtered by my comments now let the replies roll in:wacko:
T.Annimal,
I for one am not on here to slaughter you or anyone else, but I just don't see how the nasc can carry the can for the need to carry all these tickets. I think it goes much much deeper than one organisation however big or small. The world we live in has changed dramatically over the 22 years I've been in the trade and now with the American culture of suing everyone in sight has been well established on this side of the pond now for the last 10 years everybody has decided to cover their ass by requiring both you and I to have all these tickets to prove competence. As you know my small operation is a proud member company of the nasc and I can assure you they are not the reason I joined The Argyll Training Group to try and source proper training for me and the boy's, I think it is more to do with being a responsible employer trying to ensure the boy's I have working for me have the best tools possible to carry out the task that is given too them. I get more pressure from liability insurance assessors to make sure all the boy's are properly trained and ticketed to prove competence than I ever get from any other source then next in line would be the loads of outside contractors that come in to this area and think we are a tiny diddy scaffold outfit that can't possibly know what we are doing or the current state of legislation that bigger outfits work to, every one of them get's the shock of their lives when I start dealing cards like a Las Vegas tramp able to produce proof of training for everything.
That been said I realise there is another side of the coin whereby a surprisingly large number of men are now being told their tickets are no longer valid, and I know exactly how that feels as one of the boy's here has an advanced SCORE card that whatever the reason main contractors are refusing to accept and this guy finds himself in the exact same position as yourself and that's why you will get my full support on the other thread but we will probably have to agree to disagree on this one.
every ones entitled to there opinions aom. as this is a forum so were all intitled.to this is what makes it a forum otherwise it would be dull.as for nasc i no big firms that have joined this outfit just to get reconition.as safety counts a lot before the price is involved.
so it benefits some and does not benefit others.as nasc havent benefited me iam one of those.
so it benefits some and does not benefit others.as nasc havent benefited me iam one of those.
Rigger
Moderator
I can see your point of view Dico,
It does appear that a seperate card is required for every variation from the bog standard.
This has come about through better training and the reconition for the risks and hazards we can encounter in the seperate facets of our industry.It is all about showing competance to work within the different environments we go into and to show our standard of training and skill levels
I can but applaud you aom, for your attitude to working safely and training your workforce to highest standards within the industry.Having owned a small scaffold company in the past I know first hand the cost of working to the book and not cutting corners
It is not the training (cards) that is at fault but the way it is funded and managed.I would like to see a government agency that the lads that do work for an employer could apply too for further training.
The scaffolder after approval had been granted, would be instructed to attend such and such training establishment to undergo his training, free of charge a basic wage would be paid to his employer for the time spent.A lot more use of on the job training and assessments.
If you are self employed (sole trader) you would apply the same but you would pay a resonable fee (the training centres would operate as non profit making institutions) you would be responsible for your wages.
The training agency to be financed from the CITB levy already in place.I think we could get more training from the same budget if the profits made by the present training companies was utilised within the industry
It does appear that a seperate card is required for every variation from the bog standard.
This has come about through better training and the reconition for the risks and hazards we can encounter in the seperate facets of our industry.It is all about showing competance to work within the different environments we go into and to show our standard of training and skill levels
I can but applaud you aom, for your attitude to working safely and training your workforce to highest standards within the industry.Having owned a small scaffold company in the past I know first hand the cost of working to the book and not cutting corners
It is not the training (cards) that is at fault but the way it is funded and managed.I would like to see a government agency that the lads that do work for an employer could apply too for further training.
The scaffolder after approval had been granted, would be instructed to attend such and such training establishment to undergo his training, free of charge a basic wage would be paid to his employer for the time spent.A lot more use of on the job training and assessments.
If you are self employed (sole trader) you would apply the same but you would pay a resonable fee (the training centres would operate as non profit making institutions) you would be responsible for your wages.
The training agency to be financed from the CITB levy already in place.I think we could get more training from the same budget if the profits made by the present training companies was utilised within the industry
Hi dico,
I don't want to get in to big debate about it and your quite right about everyone being entitled to their opinions, I only meant that there are far greater forces at work for deciding what and how many cards we carry and I don't think the nasc are the biggest driving force behind that.
Rigger,
I have said on here many times I felt the training was not up to scratch but to be honest I never really had any answers or suggestions on how to improve it other than to keep the boy's with me as I alway's said they would learn more in a week with me than they seem to do at the training centres but your suggested approach of further training could well gather a lot of support whithin the industry, a one stop shop for all training whereby no one could raise any doubts of effectivness or 2 years down the line tell you it will no longer be accepted.
good point aom.and i do value your opions mate.at the end of the day we all just wana earn.theres a job being advertised by a agencie on here great agencie but now client
wants.asbestos medical and a half face mask.which is fine.but because i did these in 2001.there no longer accepted.think we all need a scaffolders database. so they cant
keep changing our goal posts.
wants.asbestos medical and a half face mask.which is fine.but because i did these in 2001.there no longer accepted.think we all need a scaffolders database. so they cant
keep changing our goal posts.
Hi aom
Ive just posted something on the Ecitb thread so didnt want to repeat it but i will just ask briefly on this thread, i value what you have to say and have read your threads and replys and rate your knowledge and input you give the forum very highly, so here goes who is the main governing body of our industry who makes the decision who implements them, who applies the letter of the law. cause half the time i see guidance this and guidance that, does that mean you must do it by law and if so who makes it the law. Nasc, Hse, Joint councils, Unions. who hows the final say. Hope you can educate just a plain old scaffolder how it all works.
Ive just posted something on the Ecitb thread so didnt want to repeat it but i will just ask briefly on this thread, i value what you have to say and have read your threads and replys and rate your knowledge and input you give the forum very highly, so here goes who is the main governing body of our industry who makes the decision who implements them, who applies the letter of the law. cause half the time i see guidance this and guidance that, does that mean you must do it by law and if so who makes it the law. Nasc, Hse, Joint councils, Unions. who hows the final say. Hope you can educate just a plain old scaffolder how it all works.
Hi T.Annimal,
I saw what you posted on the other thread and started to answer but changed my mind and thought it would be better to let others answer, but now you have asked direct I have no bother giving an opinion whither right or wrong.
First I would like to point out I am nothing but a scaff not manager not director just a plain old scaff like yourself trying to earn a pound. The only reason I run my own wee ship is I was basically unemployable after falling out with the few companies in my area who could carry their own scaffolder.
As for your question this is where a lot of people will have wildly different opinions on a diffinitive answer but to be honest I think the hse are the driving force behind all our legislation. The nasc work closely with them and advise them but if you are not a member of the nasc why would you bother what they say but regardless of what you do or where you do it you have to answer to the hse. There is loads more to say but my fingers can't keep up.
---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------
A perfect example dico was when my local training college offered me a few places on their scaffold inspectors course and right away I thought beuty support my local training provider and get a couple of the guy's trained in one swoop, found out later that the course on offer was useless and hse wouldn't recognise it as proper training. I cancelled right away but they still want paying.
I saw what you posted on the other thread and started to answer but changed my mind and thought it would be better to let others answer, but now you have asked direct I have no bother giving an opinion whither right or wrong.
First I would like to point out I am nothing but a scaff not manager not director just a plain old scaff like yourself trying to earn a pound. The only reason I run my own wee ship is I was basically unemployable after falling out with the few companies in my area who could carry their own scaffolder.
As for your question this is where a lot of people will have wildly different opinions on a diffinitive answer but to be honest I think the hse are the driving force behind all our legislation. The nasc work closely with them and advise them but if you are not a member of the nasc why would you bother what they say but regardless of what you do or where you do it you have to answer to the hse. There is loads more to say but my fingers can't keep up.
---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------
A perfect example dico was when my local training college offered me a few places on their scaffold inspectors course and right away I thought beuty support my local training provider and get a couple of the guy's trained in one swoop, found out later that the course on offer was useless and hse wouldn't recognise it as proper training. I cancelled right away but they still want paying.