Sccr

Had a reply from the CITB

"Dear Mr Quinney

Thank you for your message via the ConstructionSkills website.

The CISRS and ECI Skills database have always been 2 completely separate
cards schemes. ECI cards have never been recognised by or transferable
with CISRS. ECI cards are issued against experience only as opposed to
formal training, S/NVQ achievement and Health & Safety testing.

An ECI card holder would be required to complete his Part1, Part2, S/NVQ
level 2 and the Health & Safety test if they wished to obtain a CISRS
Scaffolder card.

We are aware that ECITB have ceased issuing cards but any complaints on
this issue must be directed to them as this was that body that issued
the card in the first place.

If you wish to discuss CISRS issues further please email or write to
david.mosley@nasc.org.uk as the NASC manage the CISRS scheme.

Regards

Garry Mortimer
QtW Co-ordinator"

NOW THERES A SURPRISE

WHAT A JOKE< TALK ABOUT BEING BED TOGETHER!!!


Ragscaff

E-mail sent back to the CS Skills

"Dear Mr Mortimer,

I am very sad to see this response.

Some of our members have been in the Industry for 15 to 20 years with a card that was a card for life. The hold the NASC has on CISRS is the main issue in regards the ECITB card being dropped.

I was under the impression the CITB or ConstructionSkills was the governing body in regards training. You have allowed the NASC to undertake the Scaffold card scheme as a private company. Why is it they have total control & this is the only scaffolding qualification. In the eyes of the HSE you cannot dictate the training in this way you should have alternatives.

To be bold 60% of Part 1 scaffolders learn nothing on their course, we have a large amount of guys willing to confirm this. 40-50% of part 2 scaffolders are not able to base out on their own. How can you then say an experienced man with 15 years behind them has no option than to spend £1,500 + to gain a ticket he already had. They should just do the NVQ & assessment at the level they are experienced at!!

We have tried the NASC route & have hit a brick wall we now wish to take this to a complaints commission. Can you please let me know who to contact in this regard.

Also who regulates the training, the time scales are not realistic to the knowledge needed, how can anyone justify giving an advanced card after two years. This should be no less than 5 years closer to seven. Part 1 should not occur until 1 years labouring with a company entering you into the course & part two the same after a further year once completing the part 1.

You talk about the CISRS being superior to knowledge, first point I would raise is the courses are 90% attendance only & the on site assessment is one day, after part 2!! How do you justify one day is going to cover a part 2's knowledge yet someone with 15 years experience & company endorsements is treated in this very,very poor way.

This has already put people out of work they have lost their livelihoods.

How do we go about setting up an independent review of the way the NASC run the CISRS. How did the (until now) only industry body get control of the only training scheme??

Look forward to your reply.

Regards Stewart Quinney

Scaffolders Confederation for Consultation Rights working with the Scaffolders Forum"


Ragscaff

very well put ragscaff well done

well said i have done the part one after 22 years so know what a shambles it is and a waste of time for someone with experience

frenchy said:

well said i have done the part one after 22 years so know what a shambles it is and a waste of time for someone with experience

Click to expand...

I can't quite believe that after 22 years of on the tools scaffold experience they make you do a part 1 and not an advanced course, is this all due to the ecitb cards being phased out ?

In the real world you would approach a training provider & the first question would be what experiance have you got.

"Oh 20 years & four letters from previous employers on the work I have done."

Thankyou for the information I feel you could enter our scheme at part 2 level. Here is a questionaire & if you are successfull I will put you straight into that scheme referances pending!!

After all if you are not capable to pass at that level you would be failed!!!!!!! More money or not. Publish the pass fail figures & compare to GCSE.

Ragscaff :toung:

make you right ragscaff.talk about pass the buck.they should start a table tennis torlament.you ring ecitb they say ring cscs.you ring nasc.they ante interested.now they
say ring ecitb.well some ones liable for us ecitb scaffs.ive got twenty more years scaffolding left in me.nice fat cheque will do.how can you be a scaffolder one minute.
then wake up and you ante.

dangeruss said:

I can't quite believe that after 22 years of on the tools scaffold experience they make you do a part 1 and not an advanced course, is this all due to the ecitb cards being phased out ?

Click to expand...

Yes all because ecitb being phased out. I done the course off my own back as it looks like the issue will not get resolved so have to get the CIRS ticket for when the ecitb ticket expires

spoke to a scaff weekend frenchy.hes 55 with a ecitb he said no ways hes gana sit a
part 1.and i dont blame him.early days m8.there already passing the buck.keep ya recietes.

Hi Dico
Yes mate lets hope they do the decent thing. I'm not opposed to training as long as its at the relevant level
Frenchy

E-mail got from CS Skills

"Dear Mr Quinney

Thank you for your reply but unfortunately ConstructionSkills only administer the scheme on behalf of CISRS, any complaints about scheme rules must be made in writing to them at the below address or by e-mailing dave.mosley@nasc.org.uk
CISRS
4th Floor
12 Bridewell PlaceLondonEC4V 6AP

We have never dealt with ECITB cards and as such any issues you have with them in regard to withdrawing their card must be made to them.

In relation to timescales, these are a minimum guidelines, in most cases operatives hold two 18 month Trainee cards whilst carrying out their Part t1, Part 2 training and competing their S/NVQ Level 2, so on average it takes around 3 years to qualify to Scaffolder level. The operative must hold his Scaffolder card a minimum of 12 months before being eligible to attend his Advanced course Following their Advanced course they are required to have a minimum of 6 months site experience before they can be assessed for S/NVQ 3, which would take it to around 4 ½ years to get to Advanced level.

Further information on the Scheme rules is available in the CISRS Scheme Booklet which can be downloaded from the link below:

http://www.cisrs.org.uk/documents/Cisrs_Cap_609_000.pdf

Unfortunately I unable to help you further with your query.

Yours sincerely

Garry MortimerQtW Co-ordinator"

Comments please!!



Ragscaff

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

E-mail sent back!!

"Dear Mr Mortimer,


Thank-you very much for replying to me.

Sorry to take up your time but we have been informed of a new apprenticeship scheme that will allow 16-18 year olds to gain a part 2 ticket in 18 months with 11 weeks training! Is this true?

I am very sorry for badgering you but Mr Mosley is not replying to us in this matter!

We have a meeting with the HSE in October to go through these points & any information you can give me will help progress matters.

Thank-you for your time.

Kind Regards Stewart Quinney

Scaffolders Confederation for Consultation Rights working with the Scaffolders Forum"


Ragscaff
__________________
S.C.C.R in partnership with Scaffoldersforum

i agree with that

Sorted, looks like solid foundations to me.

good luck to you all and thanks for what you are all doing how do we join ?

frenchy said:

good luck to you all and thanks for what you are all doing how do we join ?

Click to expand...

Need to sort address for the SCCR & a couple of other things then we will issue membership forms, a week hopefully!

Ragscaff

The biggest boozer in Cornwall sounds like a good address,would come in handy for the AGMs

Hi Ragscaff,
I've been in the game for 23 years, running my own company for the last 14 years in North wales.Although we as a company we always apply the SG4 2010 guidelines with all our staff. I must say that in all my years on and off the tools I have never heard of a scaffolder falling off a structure. Sure I've heard of brickies and joiners and roofers falling off (usually after tampering with the scaffold structure itself). So don't you think it a good idea that these tradesmen (and the statistics will back us up) should be the ones to wear harnesses. See how they like the restricted movement every four or five feet.

Been on a project when internal walls needed to be completed with external so the scaffold could be raised both sides to prevents falls etc. Due to a lot of rain the internal walls got raised quicker hence leaving a differance of around 3 lifts. We wee told to fit a double handrail that would be stripped progreive as the walls were raised. I said the only way the rail gets removed is when the mortar sets or the brickies wear a harness!

Needless to say the external walls started to be worked on! The price was poor on the brickwork compared to the internal block work! :weird:

Ragscaff

E-mail sent to David Mosley NASC

"Dear Mr Mosley,

I am writing to you to invite you as a speaker at our next meeting with the HSE. It will be held on either the 26th or 27th October at the HSE office in Birmingham. The agenda includes Training & Advanced rails. We would welcome your input & look forward to your comments we are waiting on in regards ECITB.

If you let me know which day you can attend so I can confirm with the rest of my committee.

Regards Stewart Quinney
Chairman S.C.C.R."

---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

E-mail sent to the CITB

"Dear Mr Mortimer,

Following my e-mail of the 19th July, of which I have not had a reply.

I have recently been involved with the set up of the S.C.C.R. & we would very much like consultation with the CITB on issues concerning our Industry.

We have a meeting set up with the HSE in October & would like someone from the CITB to attend as the agenda includes training, CISRS & advanced rail issues.

Please let me know if you can attend.

Regards Stewart Quinney
Chairman S.C.C.R"