SCCR to call ECITB meeting (2 Viewers)

Phil most contractors don't accept the ECITB card now & have not for a long time. All we have asked for is clarity.

The question of refunds etc.

Why do you think no one wants to talk about the deals that were done.

The whole situation has been poorly handled by all concerned. Should be interesting to say the least. But I do not expect any of the invited to turn up.

Stewart
 
Phil most contractors don't accept the ECITB card now & have not for a long time. All we have asked for is clarity.

The question of refunds etc.

Why do you think no one wants to talk about the deals that were done.

The whole situation has been poorly handled by all concerned. Should be interesting to say the least. But I do not expect any of the invited to turn up.

Stewart

Nor do I!
 
Don't bite my head off either but if the ECITB card scaffolders get a deal do all the ones who attended training get a refund

questionaires are out there wouldnt want to be the person that rights out the cheque!!!
 
Crazy idea I know, just want to make sure the same is not going to happen to ASRE guys & try & get some answers for the ECITB guys.

When ever I talk to people about this issue I am asked have I treid contacting the powers to be, yes I have & this is another attempt.

Stewart
 
Crazy idea I know, just want to make sure the same is not going to happen to ASRE guys & try & get some answers for the ECITB guys.

When ever I talk to people about this issue I am asked have I treid contacting the powers to be, yes I have & this is another attempt.

Stewart

Maybe 'the powers to be' will decide that all the CISRS ARE lads will need to start from scratch.

That'll make you popular....

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Maybe 'the powers to be' will decide that all the CISRS ARE lads will need to start from scratch.

That'll make you popular....

As an after thought, this can only go one of two ways.

First way, will be that the ECITB continue to ignore you, in which case you will have to take your argument to court (if you can find the resourses to do this) It will probably take even the daftest of Judges about 5 minutes of flicking through the WAH Regs 2005, to dismiss your case and award costs to whoever it is that you decided to sue.

Second way, same scenario, but you make a load of noise about how unfair it is that a shed-load of lads were awarded their CISRS cards on the back of an assessed route of entry. In this instance the Judge will dismiss your case and question the legalities of the ARE.
 
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Phil, if you look at the Reason ARE was stopped. It was because the work at height regs stated training, the regs before did not. So a judge should say ARE was ok at the time, I think anyone who ever did ARE will never have to undertake any new scaffold training as they are in the system under cisrs.
 
Phil, if you look at the Reason ARE was stopped. It was because the work at height regs stated training, the regs before did not. So a judge should say ARE was ok at the time, I think anyone who ever did ARE will never have to undertake any new scaffold training as they are in the system under cisrs.

Fair point and I understand the argument.

However, with point one being the most likely scenario, I would not rule out a judge asking for the ARE to at least be looked into if that was forming part of the initial argument.
 
were all scaffolders !!! leave the legalities to the laywers!! as for ase hope thats raffled a few feathers cause your no how the ecitb scaffolder feels cant have a rule for one and a rule for another failed notification the word i would use as for resourses if iam out of work come 2011 with this ticket i will have loads and it wont cost me a penny!!!!
 
The legality is not in the legislation or regs of scaffolding its in reference to the removal of a mans likelihood without allowing him to gain the equivalent employment. Taking away a mans right to earn. Due to the un professional way all parties have handled this guys have been left in the cold.

Don't mind you taking the p**s again mate but this is not a case of thick scaffolders with nothing better to do causing trouble.

Guys have lost jobs & are still losing jobs, it might be funny to you but we still come across some who do not know about their ECITB card. We are not all working for corporate companies who know it all. CISRS is still new to some believe it or not. ECITB do not know who had them so it could not be seen as a valid card that is why the skills test came in on ARE, should have been kept open for ECITB holders then this would have been sorted.

Stewart
 
Fair point and I understand the argument.

However, with point one being the most likely scenario, I would not rule out a judge asking for the ARE to at least be looked into if that was forming part of the initial argument.

I agree but all ARE were conducted in cisrs training centres under supervision of instructors and assessors. Unfortunately Ecitb had no assessment or training. No1 in all this is the unions have hung the scaffs out to dry and they should have worked with the men on a solution before dropping the card.
 
I agree but all ARE were conducted in cisrs training centres under supervision of instructors and assessors. Unfortunately Ecitb had no assessment or training. No1 in all this is the unions have hung the scaffs out to dry and they should have worked with the men on a solution before dropping the card.

Yep. Good old Unions eh!
 
the question of do cisrs card holders get a refund. if ecitb card holders are awarded a cisrs card should not be an overriding topic. more that those who hold a ecitb can show proof of training by producing pay slips from all over the country and oil rigs and working abroad. who do people think erected all those scaffolds before. it wasnt the scaffold fairy who appeared in the night these men along with citb. and union acredited route of learning was to do a year as a labourer then speend the next 12 months as a
first year improver then second year improver then third year improver and then if you got a letter from your employer to show proof and you took that to your union meeting were you finaly classed as a scaffolder not a 2 week course in some old redundent factory with nice clean floors and nothing in the way so please accept that the cisrs card is now the new standard of proof of competence but ecitb was given with proof of employment ie you got it signed by your manager
 
so if we did 20 days in a cisrs trainning warehouse we would be competent but!!! as myself and others have been on a live circuit for 20years were not competent!!! iam off up the pub goodnight!!!
 
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Stewart, you may have a human rights case here, I have been doing a bit of expert witness work recently and there is something called a CFA, it's the price before you start and no more. They will obviously take a long hard look prior to taking it on but it's an option.
 
this is obviously going to become a debate between cisrs holders and ecitb holders and neither will give ground aslong as both parties think its a dig at each other so for me to end my imput into this matter iam am now going through the cisrs process from part 1 to advance but guess what ill still have more skill knowledge and experiance than any new age cisrs scaffolder and in years to come when they come up with a new way to train and all the cisrs card holders have to retrain at there own expense just remember this debate and its goodnight from me and its goodnight from him
 
Stewart, you may have a human rights case here, I have been doing a bit of expert witness work recently and there is something called a CFA, it's the price before you start and no more. They will obviously take a long hard look prior to taking it on but it's an option.

eventually EUREAKA.....simian your spot on this will go to the human rights courts,this is not an argument over ARE or CISRS or they cant get it if we dont its REAL mens houses families living.iv said before where this will be settled the european employment courts where fortunately they generally take the side of the employee if he has been wronged and this is a case where the employee has been wronged,so lets not make assumptions of capitulations or premature defeat lets get behind the EICTB guys and push for a positive outcome,think positive dico animal frenchy and all the rest which this decsision will horribly affect.

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the litagation will not be brought by any tradebody ie the SCCR but i belive will be brought by a single entity such as dico for example who will be out of work denied by this fiasco a test case you may call it paid by legal aid as the man has no source of income.another BOSMAN but in the industrial sector,there is still time for these mugs to arrive at a sensible solution before the floodgates open.
 
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eventually EUREAKA.....simian your spot on this will go to the human rights courts,this is not an argument over ARE or CISRS or they cant get it if we dont its REAL mens houses families living.iv said before where this will be settled the european employment courts where fortunately they generally take the side of the employee if he has been wronged and this is a case where the employee has been wronged,so lets not make assumptions of capitulations or premature defeat lets get behind the EICTB guys and push for a positive outcome,think positive dico animal frenchy and all the rest which this decsision will horribly affect.

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

the litagation will not be brought by any tradebody ie the SCCR but i belive will be brought by a single entity such as dico for example who will be out of work denied by this fiasco a test case you may call it paid by legal aid as the man has no source of income.another BOSMAN but in the industrial sector,there is still time for these mugs to arrive at a sensible solution before the floodgates open.

That is why the SCCR has taken a limited amount of case studies to progress this issue.

Stewart
 
Phil, if you look at the Reason ARE was stopped. It was because the work at height regs stated training, the regs before did not. So a judge should say ARE was ok at the time, I think anyone who ever did ARE will never have to undertake any new scaffold training as they are in the system under cisrs.

everybody would like to think the (are) was stopped due working at height!!!!
rubbish it was because people were abusing the course ie nan and grandad paying for little joe to do course!!! that didnt have a clue but!!! passed as for ecitb there were a shortage of scaffolders thats why this ticket was brought out with the managers descretion!!! scaffolders talk you must forget how you talk to mr !!!!!!
 
What happened with the scaffs that did the Assessed Route in Newcastle,that the instructor was involved in a scandal and was fired and then there was a fire and all the paperwork was lost, have they managed to appeal and gain there CISRS card, or have they had to start from scratch.
 
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