who will be in the dock if there is an accident (4 Viewers)

mightymouse

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just want some advice guys.

i have just found out today,
the guy who is running a site i am on,
only has his BASIC card.

i have an ADVANCED ticket,
so if there was an accident
who will be in court in the dock,
me,him or the company.

im not sure how he has managed swindle this job but he has.

thanks
 
just want some advice guys.

i have just found out today,
the guy who is running a site i am on,
only has his BASIC card.

i have an ADVANCED ticket,
so if there was an accident
who will be in court in the dock,
me,him or the company.

im not sure how he has managed swindle this job but he has.

thanks

normally its the company for selecting him.
 
just want some advice guys.

i have just found out today,
the guy who is running a site i am on,
only has his BASIC card.

i have an ADVANCED ticket,
so if there was an accident
who will be in court in the dock,
me,him or the company.

im not sure how he has managed swindle this job but he has.

thanks
Doe's it not say that in certain situations a basic scaffolder must work under supervision of an advanced scaffolder. Company must not know, or are ignoring the rules.
 
Dependent on the severity of the accident, ultimately the company director is the one responsible for all matters of health and safety of operatives working under him. So if it comes to a corporate manslaughter, its him in the dock.

By basic I take it you mean blue card CISRS, not the red trainee card?
If thats the case he is ok to run a site on paper anyway, we all know that counts for squat as it should be carded and experienced.
If he's on a red trainee card then your right, no-way should he be in charge, regardless of experience levels.
Next in line for the chop would be supervisors, if there are any, for failing to supervise the operatives on site sufficiently.
Basically, a court would see it that work crews must be supervised at all times. Which is the way all the major contractors are moving.
 
he signs them off,he does everything with regards to the scaffold,
except erect it
he thinks he is too good to get the tools on
when in reality he knows feck all
good with paperwork i was told thats it.
 
I could be wrong but is it not as long as the job's you are building are basic and don't go beyond the scope of basic training he is well within his rights to sign these jobs over?
 
they are defo not basic scaffolds,we are doing a gantry and done 4 hangers,all of which he has signed off
i know what your saying tho,which is right
as long as he is only supervising basic scaffolds he is ok.
 
May be thats why your gaffer has put you on the the job because your advanced and he's basic,it covers the company if anyone comes askin questions,as for who ends up in court in an accident you all will be questioned by the hse either under caution or formally,both are horrendous.
 
Just watch yer ar5e mate,they sound like they are using your ticket to cover him for signing and tagging the jobs,does he hold an inspection ticket,or just the basic scaffs ticket...another so called competent ar5ebag unable to legally do the correct job required as usual..sign sweet FA mate and keep the ball in his court,after all he will be getting paid for it.
 
im advanced 34 yrs in game who ever signs them are responsible and if he is only basi the supervisor should check and sign them seen alot of this last two years all down to saving money the **** will hit the fan in the event of an accident
 
no he has no other tickets apart from his basic card
im signing nothing mate,its not my job too,and i told him that.
if they come to me and ask why i wont sign them off
my answer is going to be why are'nt i the one in charge
seen as tho im the senior scaff on site.
 
just want some advice guys.

i have just found out today,
the guy who is running a site i am on,
only has his BASIC card.

i have an ADVANCED ticket,
so if there was an accident
who will be in court in the dock,
me,him or the company.

im not sure how he has managed swindle this job but he has.

thanks

.
A basic or advanced ticket is not proof of competence unless the scaffolder is up to date on the guidelines. These were the words of the HSE at their presentation today. Possibly because half the contractors who attended thought TG20:08 was the last bus out of Derby to Nottingham
 
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You can only sign "basic scaffolds" off with a basic card.. hangers etc have to be signed off and have an Advanced doing the job.. pretty certain on this..
 
I'm sure if he's only got a basic card, he can't sign hangers off, you would have to do that. he can only sign off and tag basic jobs. ie. towers and ind..
 
if you are a compertent scaffolder you can sign them of as a basic, most gold card scaffs cant even do a hanger
 
Working at Height Competence

This Operational Circular issued to HSE officers provides advice to visiting staff (HSE & LA) on the interpretation and enforcement of the Work at Height Regulations 2005 (WAHR) in respect of Competence.

Appendix 8
Definition of Competence

APPENDIX 8
COMPETENCE
1 Competence is not defined in the Regulations.
2 Approximately 3 million people work at height in the UK. Some are regarded as specialists who use equipment such as MEWPs, personal fall protection systems or are involved with erecting temporary edge protection, scaffolding, tower scaffolds, nets etc. Others regularly work at height utilising equipment set up by others. For such people, most if not all of the requirements listed in para 5 and 6 will be required.
3 However, it is recognised that for a lot of people work at height will be incidental to their main job eg librarians using a kick stool to retrieve books or a shop assistant retrieving stock using a stepladder. For such simple tasks only some of the elements listed in para 5 and 6 will be relevant. In its simplest form, competence for these incidental, occasional or
low risk tasks, should involve a person having,
(1) an awareness of the risks
(2) appropriate access equipment available
(3) knowledge of how to use the access equipment safely
(4) knowledge of how to spot defects in the equipment
(5) knowledge of who to speak to if they have any concerns regarding
to (d).
4 Bearing in mind the proportionality issues discussed in paras 2 and 3 above, the
following basic definition can be used.
5 A competent person is a person who can demonstrate that they have sufficient professional or technical training, knowledge, actual experience, and authority to enable them to,
(1) carry out their assigned duties at the level of responsibility allocated to them,
(2) understand any potential hazards related to the work (or equipment) under consideration,
(3) detect any technical defects or omissions in that work (or equipment),
recognise any implications for health and safety caused by those defects or
omissions, and be able to specify a remedial action to mitigate those
implications. ‘authority’ means delegated authority to the individual by their employer to carry out a certain function or duty.
6 The wording of the basic definition in para 5 has been adopted and included in a number of British Standards and industry documents. The definition may be used in practice by stating what it implies for any given situation or activity.
The following is an example of its application.
ACWAHT (Advisory Committee for Work at Height Training) have agreed that for an individual to be “competent to work at height” the definition given above implies the following.
(1) To know and understand the specific legal duties under the Work at Height
Regulations which apply to them as an individual.
(2) To understand who controls their activity and the lines of communication to use.
(3) To understand the principles of fall protection that the Work at Height
Regulations requires to be used.
(4) To be able to recognise safe and unsafe situations/activities.
(5) To understand how to deal with the hazards associated with the task
allocated to them.
(6) To have adequate training in the correct use and limitations of any work
equipment allocated to them for the task.
(7) To understand the need for and the ability to check the adequacy of the
safety equipment allocated to them.
(8) If that equipment has been issued to them on a personal basis an
understanding of the correct procedure for storage and maintenance and
inspection.
(9) To understand safe procedures of work and be able to state the correct
procedure for the task, the emergency (including rescue) procedures in place
for the work and their role in it.
(10) To know the procedure for reporting any defects, hazards or unsafe
procedures they detect.
Note: Similar industry groups are working currently to define the attributes that the basic definition implies for their activities. Used in this way, HSE believes that competence for any given task/role can be assessed by simple questions and answers and does not require detailed knowledge of the individual, their background, training or experience
 
As far as scaffolding is concerned the competence is trained & ticketed such as the CISRS scheme.

The HSE have informed us that this is what is in the new guideline SG4 2010.

That means that no one other than a ticketed scaffolder can alter or remove any fixed scaffold, including handrails, braces & especially ties!

See a brickie with a spanner in his bucket remove it & throw it away.

Stewart Quinney
SCCR
Chairman
 
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