compliance sheet

[BIG G]

Hi GUYS HAVE ERECTED A SMALL JOB ON STREET 4m long x 4.5m high, HANDOVER CERT GIVEN TO BUILDER, NOW HIS CLIENT HAS ASK FOR COMPLIANCE SHEET MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE HANDOVER CERT IS ENOUGH SCAFFOLD NOT DESIGNED JUST BASIC ACCESS TOWER TO ROOF

[TG6]

I think he is probably talking about a TG20 compliance sheet which gives a list of the criteria to make it acceptable as a basic scaffold. With the information about the location, height, lift height, bay length, pavement lift, cladding, ladders, and probably a couple of good photos, it is a five minute job to produce one using the NASC program. Unfortunately NASC hard enter the owner of the program in the sheet to stop people sharing it so you need to find a friendly designer chap who doesn't mind adding his name to your work.

[BIG G]

I think he is probably talking about a TG20 compliance sheet which gives a list of the criteria to make it acceptable as a basic scaffold. With the information about the location, height, lift height, bay length, pavement lift, cladding, ladders, and probably a couple of good photos, it is a five minute job to produce one using the NASC program. Unfortunately NASC hard enter the owner of the program in the sheet to stop people sharing it so you need to find a friendly designer chap who doesn't mind adding his name to your work.

Great we cover all THAT on are handing over certs SO all good many thanks for your reply

[scaffcon]

The compliance sheet isn't a legal requirement neither is a handing over certificate at this moment in time. If the client stipulated the compliance sheet in his tender then he is entitled to it, if not and he wants one then he should pay for it.

[Roger Nutkins]

i can conform that ALL jobs now need a TG20 sheet as its the law. fact

[TG6]

i can conform that ALL jobs now need a TG20 sheet as its the law. fact

Just to help everyone who may look at this thread:

If there is no TG20 compliance sheet (or a design) relating to an erected scaffold, which law is being broken and who is breaking that law?

[clifford]

If you can’t produce compliance sheet, then a design is required !!

[TG6]

Here's a thought then:

From Work at Height Regulations 2005 Schedule 3

7. Strength and stability calculations for scaffolding shall be carried out unless—
(a) a note of the calculations, covering the structural arrangements contemplated, is available; or
(b) it is assembled in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration.

Note that this b) does not refer to a European or British Standard but to a 'recognised standard configuration'. It does not specify who should recognise the configuration. It does not specify a compliance sheet. If a scaffolder has been formally trained to erect straightforward 2-3 storey house scaffolds and continues in his working life to follow what he was taught, can you argue that he has not assembled it in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration? If you can't, then the clause in the regulations has been satisfied and a compliance sheet is not required.

[scaffcon]

Here's a thought then:

From Work at Height Regulations 2005 Schedule 3

7. Strength and stability calculations for scaffolding shall be carried out unless—
(a) a note of the calculations, covering the structural arrangements contemplated, is available; or
(b) it is assembled in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration.

Note that this b) does not refer to a European or British Standard but to a 'recognised standard configuration'. It does not specify who should recognise the configuration. It does not specify a compliance sheet. If a scaffolder has been formally trained to erect straightforward 2-3 storey house scaffolds and continues in his working life to follow what he was taught, can you argue that he has not assembled it in conformity with a generally recognised standard configuration? If you can't, then the clause in the regulations has been satisfied and a compliance sheet is not required.

As you said i think it comes down to who recognises the configuration. At the moment NASC are the only player in this industry who has guidance out there that has been 'adopted' by the HSE and the construction companies - this is where as i see it becoming a recognised configuration.

NASC have built the scaffolds whether it be a live environment or by structural calculation and have proved parameters that scaffolds constructed to their measurements are within design so to speak.

I was taught pre 2000 and what i learnt was different to what's taught now, dimensions change, swl change, regulations change - so unless i work at a company who keep up with all this and pass this information on i could still be building scaffolds with handrails at 910mm and think that a class 3 independent still has a bay size of 2.1, so would it be compliant.

I can see your view and no doubt you have little devils advocate there, but if they can use tg20 in prosecutions then it must be the only adopted configuration. Unless someone goes through it all and proves a different version, say, CAPE/ALTRAD have a standard solution book that they have proven by calculation.

[TG6]

I was taught pre 2000 and what i learnt was different to what's taught now, - but of course CPD has kept you up to date?
no doubt you have little devils advocate there, - Yes, or perhaps more than a little.

I just think that as properly tied scaffolds to straightforward jobs were not falling down all over the place before EN12811, we must have been doing something right. Also, the aim of building a scaffold is to have it stay up and provide a safe working platform. We are nowadays fixated on paperwork and covering ourselves just in case it fails to achieve these aims. Getting it done right on site should be the main focus and then nobody gets hurt and all is good.

EN12811 is a royal pain in the backside - try using it to prove that scaffold beams work and you're on to a loser. Next year, when we are out of Europe. I would love to see NASC putting a lot of lobbying into reverting to BS5973 which, as I said, seemed to work just fine. I bet that won't happen though.