Garry/Paddy, What exactly was the resistance encountered when introducing this document?
Training scaffolders Through SCCR
- Thread starter Joe90
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Garry/Paddy, What exactly was the resistance encountered when introducing this document?
Garry Adams
Well-known member
aom
Paddy made exhaustive representation of the STOIC Document to the Hierarchy of the Unions and various Organizations and was met with blank stares and vacant looks---the main reason for a lack of interest may have been that the people in places of influence have no idea of how the Scaffolding Industry Works and therefore could not recognize the implications of the Benefits...
The STOIC Document was created as a watered down version of the Offshore Union's Proposal to establish an Offshore Scaffolding Academy, which after initially being sanctioned by Government was moth balled at the eleventh hour...
Garry...
Paddy made exhaustive representation of the STOIC Document to the Hierarchy of the Unions and various Organizations and was met with blank stares and vacant looks---the main reason for a lack of interest may have been that the people in places of influence have no idea of how the Scaffolding Industry Works and therefore could not recognize the implications of the Benefits...
The STOIC Document was created as a watered down version of the Offshore Union's Proposal to establish an Offshore Scaffolding Academy, which after initially being sanctioned by Government was moth balled at the eleventh hour...
Garry...
R
ragscaff
Guest
Christ! Step out for a day or two & then come back to all this reading!!
The problem with setting up your own training is as follows.
The cost of setting up your own training centre would not be in our target for about two years.
We have to work with what is available now!!
Yes we have meetings set up with training centres & the CISRS. I am trying to get a meeting with the CITB.
First we need to establish ourselves!!
One way to help improve the scaffolders ability is to set up mentors. Quality Advanced scaffolders who can be placed at firms to help bring the quality & experience up a level. This again is going to need some setting up but it is a way of getting involved.
We have Consultation with the HSE & this is going to be developed. Main contractors are a different animal. First they need to accept the Trained Scaffolder knows what he is doing when he turns up on site!
If any contractor is doing their own adaption’s then unless the guy with the spanner has some form of scaffolders ticket that is illegal! Competent Person in the HSE eyes is trained & ticketed. I am told that SG4 2010 states this!!
Rome was not built in a day & we certainly do not want it to burn down!!
Ragscaff
The problem with setting up your own training is as follows.
The cost of setting up your own training centre would not be in our target for about two years.
We have to work with what is available now!!
Yes we have meetings set up with training centres & the CISRS. I am trying to get a meeting with the CITB.
First we need to establish ourselves!!
One way to help improve the scaffolders ability is to set up mentors. Quality Advanced scaffolders who can be placed at firms to help bring the quality & experience up a level. This again is going to need some setting up but it is a way of getting involved.
We have Consultation with the HSE & this is going to be developed. Main contractors are a different animal. First they need to accept the Trained Scaffolder knows what he is doing when he turns up on site!
If any contractor is doing their own adaption’s then unless the guy with the spanner has some form of scaffolders ticket that is illegal! Competent Person in the HSE eyes is trained & ticketed. I am told that SG4 2010 states this!!
Rome was not built in a day & we certainly do not want it to burn down!!
Ragscaff
Garry Adams
Well-known member
Promote healthy debate---all good stuff---
Mentors/Coaches : I dont want to hark on about the good old days, HOWEVER, Pre-CITB a SGB Improver ( Trainee ) was indentured ( last form of Slavery ) to a Mentor/Coach, perhaps the old ways were the best ways ?...
Mentors/Coaches : I dont want to hark on about the good old days, HOWEVER, Pre-CITB a SGB Improver ( Trainee ) was indentured ( last form of Slavery ) to a Mentor/Coach, perhaps the old ways were the best ways ?...
That was the way I learned the trade Gary, but as you say it is heavily reliant on the good nature of older scaffs. Phil reckoned we were in danger of going round in circles and I think he had a point but that doesn't mean I'm happy with the status quo either so my last word on the subject will be the training aint good enough, I know experience will never be replaced by any amount or even quality of training but unfortunately as a small employer there is only so many different types of structure we erect on a daily basis and I need more help from the training providers, what they expect a young scaff to learn building a saddle off a purpose made vaulting horse 5' off the ground is beyond me. I will hopefully see you all at the October meeting and we can discuss it further then.
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ragscaff
Guest
These days its about choice.
If you spend a million pounds setting up a training centre to do things along the lines we are saying to gain more experience you will go bust quite quickly. A lot of firms see the training as an obstacles as apposed to a tool to improve productivity.
Where as mentors through an organisation will costs, but you will see benefits in productivity & safety standards!!
Choice!!
Ragscaff
If you spend a million pounds setting up a training centre to do things along the lines we are saying to gain more experience you will go bust quite quickly. A lot of firms see the training as an obstacles as apposed to a tool to improve productivity.
Where as mentors through an organisation will costs, but you will see benefits in productivity & safety standards!!
Choice!!
Ragscaff
daz
Well-known member
The major problem with the standard courses for the Basic and Advanced is the contents.We all know its not difficult to achieve a so called pass,the contents themselves have to be changed.If the course has to be strung out over a 2 week period,that must surely give time for some off the cuff problem solving.Assessor to give an certain sernario to individuals or gangs,couple of hour time limit to roughly draw and erect a solution to the given problem.This would weed out the blaggers,and show who the right sort of scaffs required are.The assessors must get pi55 bored giving out the same course work week after week,then they can be the true judges of who warrants tickets.
S
steve gregory
Guest
mmmmm I only vanished for 24 hrs and wow Im loving this ,,
---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------
The only problem with that daz is that every job has been passed by designers . therefore I agree with what you are saying but those situations would have to be monitored and passed...
---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------
The only problem with that daz is that every job has been passed by designers . therefore I agree with what you are saying but those situations would have to be monitored and passed...
Garry Adams
Well-known member
ragscaff
Mentor/Coach : Defiantly one for the Think Tank...
Rent a Mentor...
Mentor/Coach : Defiantly one for the Think Tank...
Rent a Mentor...
daz
Well-known member
Understand what your saying Steve,but we all know a lot of numpties sail through the course,rendering the ticket in the eyes of most scaffs as worthless when you see the calibre of some of the holders.Even a one to one hour long questions and answer session with the assessor would give the experienced lads the chance to show what they have gained through EXPERIENCE,they could answer any ammount of questions asked to them by giving numerous solutions to problems that may have to be overcome during different working scenarios,compared to the clots who would just be goosed.
If we are supposed to be competent to erect and dismantle scaffolding,shouldnt assessors be the same regarding who actually warrants a pass on the courses,because i have never heard of anybody failing..
If we are supposed to be competent to erect and dismantle scaffolding,shouldnt assessors be the same regarding who actually warrants a pass on the courses,because i have never heard of anybody failing..
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ragscaff
Guest
Well said Daz :nuts:
philliosmaximus
Moderator
spot on Daz when i did my assessed route for my advanced there was a guy there that didnt have a clue mate , he just carried tubes and done a lot of talking, same guy is now a foreman on a large company and despised by every scaffolder on there , he copied the answers from another lad on the written exam , his workplace evidence was done for him (cost him £200 ) by the governor of a company he wasent even working for at the time. The instructor found it quite funny how little this bloke new.
all the time there getting £££££££££££££££££ it will never change dont see
them strugling on the resession just every one else.
S
steve gregory
Guest
Dico mate hope that was aimed at the CISRS and not instuructors mate cos the instructors are having a very bad time at the minute..
Please dont point the blame at the instructors , they are governed to what they can and carnt teach.. dont know 1 instructor who says they think the courses are correct but there hands are tied , thats why we developed the SCCR.
We stand for change....
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steve gregory
Guest
end of the month . int it always....
daz
Well-known member
Phillylad,had a similar going on during my Assessed route advanced,come the 2nd weekend of doing it,after going through the classroom theory with the assessor about the next job to be erected,he came over to the 3 of us allocated in our group and commented that it was time for the trailer to stop following the tractor,the first half hour was up to the other 2 lads who were paired with me to show they had the savvy for the task while me and the assessor had a coffee,good man management on his behalf i thought,but the look of horror on 1 blokes chops was priceless...
Steve,are you assessing at the moment mate?if so mate whereabouts..
.Steve,are you assessing at the moment mate?if so mate whereabouts..
S
steve gregory
Guest
im inspecting at the moment daz , doing a few in house course's here and there..