Views and thoughts.......

Ok Gents here goes...

..A call came though today from an agency to see if i were available to independently inspect 3 lift shaft scaffolds, on a site by a well known for a well known construction firm. As I was in the area i agreed to "an hrs work" as they put it and agreed a fee. Designs were sent over via email before I arrived on site, 3x hanging scaffolds x 1 lift. 1.5m x 1.5m.

With vast experience of working via a design, I immediately recognised certain issues. Upon arrival on site I was greeted by a supervisor (which as he jumped up expecting my arrival I simply presumed he was the scaffold super). Introductions all round and we were set to commence an inspection. Whilst on route to the lift shafts, pleasant conversation was made, getting to know where the decent fellow came from and roles on site Blaa blaa blaa. For legal reasons we shall called said fellow Dave. Dave revealed that he had lived in the UK for 3 yrs now and really enjoys being here, as he originally came from Romania. Dave changed the subject when I asked his role on site, (will become apparent momentarily why).
Arriving at 2 of the 3 structures Dave seem rather pleased and confident at showing me this masterpiece. I had a double take just to make sure what I had witnessed, "Good scaffold, yes?" Asked Dave. I replied with "Dave, who actually erected this scaffold?" "Well that was me, all off the design" he replied.

I asked Dave what scaffold qualifications he has and to my horror he replied "NONE". I told him that I will inspect the final scaffold and then we need to go back to the office and speak with the client.

Of course you all can guess that the scaffold was not to design, in fact, the whole structure was erected in swivels. Ledgers, structural transoms, and even transoms. To allow for the bolts sticking up off the transoms Dave had notched the boards. To points where the boards were down to half an inch. The bottom node point on the bracing was half way up the lift. That was actually to the design and one issue that i had picked up prior to the site visit.

Once I had spoken to the client and told him I could not sign the scaffolds off due to the 3 whole structures not conforming to design. I felt like an orange in a juice machine, the squeeze he put on me to sign them.

I recommended that he refers back to his design team for a new design and get fully qualified scaffolders to dism and erect them next time.

Who actually sits in an office and passes off these drawings and who on gods earth allows a foreign labourer to erect a scaffold to British standards with no qualifications what so ever. Looks like if you have a black hat you can do as you please now a days.

I since had a conversation saying one of the structures has been completed to a new design and is now ready to be re-inspected. I know that the same fellow"Dave" would have done it again.
So a question I would like to raise is, If the scaffold is good to the design, as an independent inspector is it legal for me to sign off a scaffold regardless of who has erected it?

To top matters off the company has requested as I will be on site for the inspection, would i mind staying and helping the lads do the other 2 scaffolds???
The nerve of some people takes my breath. The liens said if i help them it would be good for him as he will not have to pay me again on Monday to go back and inspect the remaining 2 scaffolds as I can sign them straight off once I have helped finish erecting them. FFS

If Dave wasn't on site you would just not sign them off ,
Why he told you he erected them without any ticket to his name is anyone's guess.
I wouldn't sign them if if they aren't up to scratch because if something goes wrong your head is on the block, and you gotta live with yourself if someone gets hurt or worse

Fook em the cheeky cun7s. I wouldn't put my name to it even if it was erected and matched the design perfectly. Using "unskilled and uncertified" labour to erect a job that is an ADVANCED job is naughty. Would imagine HSE would have a field day with this one, if they're getting Dave to erect the scaffolds, who is saying that they're not getting designs done by some kid in the office that can use the drawing software.

The reason we all have to spend thousands getting trained up and keeping on top of card renewals and health and safety waffle, simplified, is to demonstrate competency and make sure the sh1t doesn't land on your toes when it starts to roll down hill.

Job might be design but does he know how tight to fasten fittings and make sure no false ties, how to identify inferior or damaged components, how to work safely blah de blah de blah.

philliosmaximus said:

If Dave wasn't on site you would just not sign them off ,
Why he told you he erected them without any ticket to his name is anyone's guess.
I wouldn't sign them if if they aren't up to scratch because if something goes wrong your head is on the block, and you gotta live with yourself if someone gets hurt or worse

Click to expand...

Hey Phil. I haven't signed them off yet but wainting for a call to go back and inspect them. Question is, does it matter if it's not erected by a carded scaffolder although it maybe up to scratch on my return.

---------- Post added at 09:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------

Copper.

I'm trying to attach the design on here to show exactly what I meant about the bracing. P
I have spoke with the agency and their answer was, who erects it is nothing to do with us. Your there to just inspect.
I think most of us "Scaffolder's" will have the same conclusion, morals etc. I asked the question from the legality side of things.

I'd want something in black and white stating why the client deemed "Dave" competent to undertake the works. Even then I wouldn't be confident if I had to stand up in court and explain why I'd signed it off. And that's the bottom line mate; if you're not happy you could do that in the event of an injury, don't put your name to it. If the site is of any decent size, why a well known firm hasn't got guys in attendance is beyond me.

Stay safe.

I've been in pretty much the same position myself and struggled with my duty of care obligation because of the size of the company I was dealing with.
In your case, does the 'well known construction firm' have a safety department that you could discuss the issue with by phone and e-mail? If they do, I would suggest that you have to talk to them so that they are aware of what is going on. It is then their problem to deal with it and you can walk away knowing that you have done all that you can.
It it's happening on one site, it is probably happening on other sites and they should be grateful that it has been picked up before something bad happens.

[/COLOR]Copper.

I'm trying to attach the design on here to show exactly what I meant about the bracing. P
I have spoke with the agency and their answer was, who erects it is nothing to do with us. Your there to just inspect.
I think most of us "Scaffolder's" will have the same conclusion, morals etc. I asked the question from the legality side of things.[/QUOTE]


It won't be the agencies name on the tag if the sh1t hits the fan, so they're not arsed. Like i say, i'd stay well clear, if something happens it will all come back to proving competency of who's erected the scaffold, and who's signed it off deeming it to be fit for use. If you hadn't known dave had erected it, but when you turned up to inspect and all the fittings were swivs, alarm bells will surely have been ringing in your head anyway?

Quote from HSE website ' Scaffolds should be designed, erected, altered and dismantled only by competent people and the work should always be carried out under the direction of a competent supervisor. This is a requirement of the Work at Height Regulations 2005.'

What is competence?

Competence can be described as the combination of training, skills, experience and knowledge that a person has and their ability to apply them to perform a task safely. Other factors, such as attitude and physical ability, can also affect someone’s competence.

As an employer, you should take account of the competence of relevant employees when you are conducting your risk assessments. This will help you decide what level of information, instruction, training and supervision you need to provide.

Competence in Health and safety should be seen as an important component of workplace activities, not an add-on or afterthought.

If you use contractors, you have a responsibility to make sure they are competent. For guidance on this, look at using contractors: A brief guide and managing contractors: A guide for employers.

Someone’s level of competence only needs to be proportionate to their job and place of work. You would not need, for example the same health and safety competence to work in an office as you would on a construction site.

Thank guys.....

lets say now I turned up tomorrow to sign off said scaffold again. The design has been altered and the structure is spot on to design. Dave again has erected this and is spot on with his job. All criteria met, would you sign it off. Don't forget you are there as a scaffold inspector not HSE. Nothing is mentioned about having to check cards of who have erected it (or Does it?).

Legally...........I have the power to deem the structure fit for purpose. Not go round seeing who holds what card.

Morally...........I know Dave shouldn't have been attempting to scaffold a biscuit barrel. And morally I should report it to HSE, do I cause the stink?

I have in fact gone in house with this as a member of my family has not long started with this company. Nowt to do with whats going on here as he is relatively high up. So a confident level of enquiry will be undertaken.

FYI guys, i have knocked the re isnpection back and not doing it.......

I reckon that this "well known company" need to know what's going on on this particular site,it sounds very dodgy to say the least.
Who has been inspecting their scaffold's previously?,or have they been doing their own for the basics and using others like yourself for the technical stuff.
fair play though for refusing.

It is predominantly a formwork site. Aledgedly they have been carrying scaffolders but can't get any or this job.

In all fairness it will only take them half hr to complete their task.. but in the same breath it only takes a few seconds for a catastrophe......

Now I had a call to go back and inspect the jobs again today. I said to the client, that was a quick turn around for you engineers to get that design done and you completely dismantle 3 x hangers and re erect 2 in 12 hrs. He replied with, well we too the design and made it better.

Not only now did it not conform to the design, we have an onsite design engineer.

Hence why I just knocked it back until circumstances change dramatically.

My mate had Similar issues when asked by an agency to go to a site.when he arrived he was asked to tag a couple of tube and fitting structures, that they claimed were scaffolds. It was on a motorway job for and the shambles were built by Portuguese guys. They obviously have to tick boxes stating the so called scaffolds are inspected etc.
My mate said he wasn't going to tag them as they weren't scaffolds but accidents waiting to happen.
Well done weaver for sticking to your guns

I can see your dilemma but tbh its not your problem.as a scaffold inspector your main priority is to make sure the scaffold is erected as per the drwg & not to overthink your role. Its the main PC who must conform to the regs that the scaffold is erected by a competant person & have a check on that via their own RAMs- had you rocked up on site & not spoken to Dave & just inspected it ,than your conclusion of a fail or prohibition would have been the same. Had you rocked up while he was still etecting it then the only thing you could have done was refuse to inspect it & as a duty of care to tell the main PC your intention to inform the hse of unsafe working practices.sometimes trying to earn a xtra £100 isnt worth either someones life or you getting a £20k fine & 5 years in jail.