Pricing a birdcage

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M3bays

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Hi guys

I wonder if any of you can help me out with pricing a birdcage,I seem to be getting more and more new builds with block and beam floors going in...
I just need a quick formular to work it out how much per cubic metre do I charge?
There is so much competition out there I just want to see what rates people are going in at?
Hopefully someone can help me out?
 
There cannot be a single flat rate per m3 due to the variables in loading required and possible grid sizes.
You can only base the labour element based upon how many m3 you can build per day per man, with the materials at their feet, this will vary greatly dependent upon the grid.

Assume a 20m x 20m x 4m high B/C in 2.5 x 2.5 x 2m lift may have around 1000 components
The same size in a 2.5 x 1.2 x 2m lift would have around 2012 components
The same size in a 1.2 x 1.2 x 2m lift would have around 3675 components
All of the above would alter again in you change the lift heights.

This same logic would need to be applied to your material hire and transport and the carry.
 
Alan Reade said:
There cannot be a single flat rate per m3 due to the variables in loading required and possible grid sizes.
You can only base the labour element based upon how many m3 you can build per day per man, with the materials at their feet, this will vary greatly dependent upon the grid.

Assume a 20m x 20m x 4m high B/C in 2.5 x 2.5 x 2m lift may have around 1000 components
The same size in a 2.5 x 1.2 x 2m lift would have around 2012 components
The same size in a 1.2 x 1.2 x 2m lift would have around 3675 components
All of the above would alter again in you change the lift heights.

This same logic would need to be applied to your material hire and transport and the carry.
Click to expand...

How can you give those numbers to us ? Any calculation or just guess?
 
Sertum90: Alan has had more experience with the design, pricing and erection than most people on this forum. As a fully qualified design engineer of very long standing you have no need to doubt his word. However the competitive pricing of one companies scaffold must ultimately be the responsibility of that one company and their best pricing policy.
 
Alan Reade said:
Just a wild guess, based simply on 42 years of time invested in doing this for a living.
Don't focus on the numbers focus on the principle.
Click to expand...

Guys calm down :) ı didnt judge anybody ı just asked :) to learn something ı need to ask questions. Im new at this sector thats why... :) but thanks anyway
 
sertem90 said:
Guys calm down :) ı didnt judge anybody ı just asked :) to learn something ı need to ask questions. Im new at this sector thats why... :) but thanks anyway
Click to expand...

As I say, the numbers are not the point its the principle that is important.
Alan
 
M3bays said:
Hi guys

I wonder if any of you can help me out with pricing a birdcage,I seem to be getting more and more new builds with block and beam floors going in...
I just need a quick formular to work it out how much per cubic metre do I charge?
There is so much competition out there I just want to see what rates people are going in at?
Hopefully someone can help me out?
Click to expand...

pricing can be made from a 3 d model of the scaffolding, designed to meet the needs of the user
so first you would have to precise those needs (live load, flat ground, ...)

from the 3d model you get quantities, you then multiply by the price per ... kilogrammes, man/hour, ...

You can get a 3D model of a birdcage here:
https://sites.google.com/site/skpmtxmod/home/standard-scaffolding/bird-cage

make a try, it is free...
 
You could essentially still work it out at a m2 rate.. If your BC was 24m x 24m x 10m High, for example, you could look it as 20 x 1.2m wide runs at 24m in length x 10m high, which would be 480m long x 10m high.. therefore still being able to apply a reasonable m2 rate and determining by experience whether you think it is competitive or not.

This is how I sometimes calculate a simple birdcage, quickly and easily, here in Australia.. But I'm using system, so what would I know! :p
 
I don't think it's a bird cage in the usual sense I think it's more a 2.4 meter high one lift
Deck that the chippies use to erect their roof trusses ,or floor joist
And you have to fill out all the rooms on the floor which can come in all the odd sizes under the sun , which can leave you cutting loads of boards or trying to use " ledger boards "
Sorry to swear Alan :laugh::laugh:
 
Sorry for hijacking the thread but is them decking systems that trad and others supply any use for that kind of work. They look good and promise to be quick but I hav never worked with them. Just when you are talking pricing decks would they be worth investment
 
They are like everything else in life, good and bad. If you are allowed to erect it as per the manufacturers instructions, it's a good system. If you have to remove unplanned timber struts the joiners have installed to plumb a timber frame then you could be looking at a rather large bulge closing off the cavity. Not great.
 
Alan Reade said:
Just a wild guess, based simply on 42 years of time invested in doing this for a living.
Don't focus on the numbers focus on the principle.
Click to expand...

Of course when making a wild guess don't forget to add 20%.
The other method is to convert the tube and boards from m3 and m2 to linear metres. Then convert the linear metres to tonnes, add the fittings then work out the labour based on how many manhours will be used to erect a tonne.
Obviously this method takes longer than a wild guess but the end result is similar.
 
I think just work out how long it will take add a bit for the kit and stick on a decent profit ,
At the end of the day only you know what you do it for
 
In Honesty, it would not be too hard to create an XL spread sheet to calculate material content for birdcages and independent scaffolds which could calculate material content for varying grid/lift scaffolds thus allowing a price to be achieved.
 
Alan Reade said:
In Honesty, it would not be too hard to create an XL spread sheet to calculate material content for birdcages and independent scaffolds which could calculate material content for varying grid/lift scaffolds thus allowing a price to be achieved.
Click to expand...

Even before the common access to computers we had printed grid matrices available in larger companies to work out birdcage scaffold materials according to grid and lift patterns.
As ever, the accumulated knowledge of these techniques have been consigned to the bin as the increasing use of computer pricing packages made us lazy.

I do wonder if somewhere in one of my lofts I have kept one of these faded hand-drafted documents!
 
Binthere said:
Even before the common access to computers we had printed grid matrices available in larger companies to work out birdcage scaffold materials according to grid and lift patterns.
As ever, the accumulated knowledge of these techniques have been consigned to the bin as the increasing use of computer pricing packages made us lazy.

I do wonder if somewhere in one of my lofts I have kept one of these faded hand-drafted documents!
Click to expand...

the geometry of the erecting site, and the live load, are the first questions to be answered

then, computers allow you to build a precise 3D model, from which you get the load list

multiplying by the unit fare of hour/ kg /km, you get the global price
 
glro said:
the geometry of the erecting site, and the live load, are the first questions to be answered

then, computers allow you to build a precise 3D model, from which you get the load list

multiplying by the unit fare of hour/ kg /km, you get the global price
Click to expand...

HUH????

Does one have the ability to answer a question without referencing ones 3d modelling software? Bad form old bean, bad form indeed
 
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