Does A-Frame Handrail Need Toe Boards?? (1 Viewer)

Afixscaffolding

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The HSE are insisting that A-Frame handrail in the edge of a warehouse needs toe boards. I've never herd anything like it ? discuss please ?
 
Only if either gaps between handrails are to large? Or materials are being stored up there where they could potentionaly fall off.

We had a similar safety officer saying if someone up there had a heart attack they could fall over and roll under the handrail!
 
Many of the larger contractors I have worked with in the last 15 years have always specified and expected toe boards with any edge protection handrails. Exceptions being staircases.
 
bit of common sense needed in these situations i think. if something could fall off toeboard it, if its nowhere near an edge no toeboard, hse sometimes make things difficult when theres no need to.
 
Many of the larger contractors I have worked with in the last 15 years have always specified and expected toe boards with any edge protection handrails. Exceptions being staircases.

As Binthere says Any edge protections these days require toeboards as there working on roofs or round an opening when something could get kicked off, but im the same if its a staircase, why toe board it as its for access not working off
 
The HSE are insisting that A-Frame handrail in the edge of a warehouse needs toe boards. I've never herd anything like it ? discuss please ?
I don't know the exact answer , but when I was a supervisor on town work I always told the client edge protection was either double handrail & toeboards or triple handrail and man nets starting from the bottom handrail. but in the end you have to respect the client/HSE wishes. hope this helps
 
Tbh you'll never win an argument over saftey - as its been raised then theirs obviously a requirement for it - our regs are quite specific to the size of gaps of 470 to reduce any risk of rolling underneath it, also you may not be aware but independant handrails are supposed to be designed but generic ones often suffice - just remember when pricing it next time rather lose the job over a few quid than someone lose their life!
 
End of day if possibility of anything falling and injuring someone toe boards are required. Section 7 states look after yourself and others so we all need to be careful nowadays
 
When you received the request for edge protection in their subcontract agreement did they specify edge protection with toe boards or just edge protection your argument is only as strong as your paperwork you was supplied with if you only quoted edge protection then what they need is deemed an additional extra the reason why I am telling you this is sometimes if you go to close this may effect other works like sheeting now this is what I do when doing edge protection for replacement of sheets fist from the wall price for class A triple handrail if the roof exceeds 10% gradient transfer your deaden onto the inside of your handrail this usually closes the gap and on an A frame it's triple handrail anyway bud add the following boards just to keep the piece
 
The point may be being missed a little here.
Edge protection systems is dealt with specifically in BS EN 13374:2004
The requirement for edge protection in scaffolding on open edge steelwork is shown in the NASC document SG 20.
I do not believe there is a specified dimension from the edge as suggested in an earlier post although there is a note in SG20 stating that the horizontal gap between the puncheon and the edge of the roof or floor must be a kept to a minimum to prevent persons falling.

At no point do I see mention or inclusion in the sketches of a toe board.

The inclusion of the toe board is in essence to make it possible to keep the opening between rails to a maximum of 470mm

If you look to BS EN 13374:2004 which covers Edge Protection SYSTEMS, this however refers to toe boards as a requirement

"3.1 edge protection system
set of components intended to protect people from falling to a lower level and to retain materials, see Figure 1"

All items in Fig 1 show the inclusion of toe boards!

However

"4.1 Class A
Class A protection provides resistance to static loads only, based on the requirements to:
support a person leaning on the protection or provide a handhold when walking beside it; and arrest a person who is walking or falling towards the protection."

Note no mention of falling materials!

Whilst this is an extensive document I will skip to
"5 Requirements
5.1 General
5.1.1 Basic requirements
An edge protection system shall comprise at least a principal guardrail and an intermediate guardrail or intermediate
protection, and it shall be possible to attach a toeboard.
NOTE It is important that components have a surface and be so located that injury to a person from puncturing or lacerating the skin is minimised.

For me this section I have highlighted in red indicates toe board to be an optional extra and as such not a standard inclusion. (not sure all would agree with me)

However where it is included
"5.1.4 Toeboard
The upper edge of the toeboard shall be at least 150 mm above the working surface. see Figures 4 and 5.
The toeboard should be designed to avoid gaps between it and the working surface on normally a flat working surface. If there are gaps, a sphere with a diameter of 20 mm shall not pass through them."


As with most of these documents they are ambiguous and open to interpretation as such I treat them like the rules of golf and interpret them to suit the tree I find myself behind.

If you are behind the tree try the reasoning but be prepared for your opponent to have a different take on the matter, at which time you agree to disagree or take the drop under penalty.

Good luck with this.

If you need further documents to reference PM me your mail address I will respond accordingly
regards
Alan
 
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