Including hire

philliosmaximus

philliosmaximus

Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
9,429
Reaction score
0
Location
London
I have priced quite a few biggish jobs lately and been well beaten on price by other firms ,
These are mainly jobs which require a 26 to 52 week hire as well as system staircases ,design work and other such things.

When I have gone through this the only thing that gets me near their price is the hire ,
Which it seems they ain't charging for ,so my question is ,
Are small to medium company's still not charging for the hire ( I understand the big guns that have an endless supply of kit doing this ) even though the recession is over and it's time to earn money after many hard years ?
 
philliosmaximus said:
I have priced quite a few biggish jobs lately and been well beaten on price by other firms ,
These are mainly jobs which require a 26 to 52 week hire as well as system staircases ,design work and other such things.

When I have gone through this the only thing that gets me near their price is the hire ,
Which it seems they ain't charging for ,so my question is ,
Are small to medium company's still not charging for the hire ( I understand the big guns that have an endless supply of kit doing this ) even though the recession is over and it's time to earn money after many hard years ?
Click to expand...


The firm I work for always charges hire, n we win some n lose some too these lads out of pick up!! We always say ya pay for what ya get!!
 
To stay competitive with the big boys but in front of the ratpack ur just gonna have to give them the service of a large company but at the cost of a small one. U know the crack though phil if u cant do it at the price then just dont do it & get urself into trouble -best to walk away & let someone else have it.
 
Morning Phil,
Kit is always a commercial decision and normally a last resort.

Don't become part of the problem Phil, driving prices down when the market is heading up is not a sound strategy.
regards
Alan
 
This is a problem that has dogged the industry in my experience over the last 45+ years of my time in scaffolding. There will always be a few idiots out there willing to empty their yard's to get their name 'on the street'. To my mind it has consistently devalued the supply of contract scaffolding generally throughout the UK to the detriment of companies providing good training for future scaffolders and management. (GKN, SGB, Palmers, Benchmark to name a few).
 
We've had the same problem, pricing against companies that are chucking the gear in for free. But if your quiet and need to keep spanners turning with a yard full of kit, what do you do?? Only problem is that when it goes mental again and all your gear is stood for free, what happens next. Either hire it and loose out both ends or buy it which is even more money out when your not getting any brass your kit anyway.

A decent sized firm round our way went bump on the back of having gear out for free, as well as pricing stuff mega cheap and then got busy, so they had to hire a load of gear and , well that was that. That's what i heard anyway.
 
Done it in the past, depends how busy you are, and there's always going to be somebody who's quieter than someone else
 
Binthere said:
This is a problem that has dogged the industry in my experience over the last 45+ years of my time in scaffolding. There will always be a few idiots out there willing to empty their yard's to get their name 'on the street'. To my mind it has consistently devalued the supply of contract scaffolding generally throughout the UK to the detriment of companies providing good training for future scaffolders and management. (GKN, SGB, Palmers, Benchmark to name a few).
Click to expand...

And there speaks a man that knows!
 
The Way they look at it its better out there earning money than sitting in the yard we sometimes stop the xtra hire to win jobs but that's a sign of the times its ok when its your own kit
 
THERES NO FOOL LIKE A BUSY FOOL
as a Scaff who hasnt got his own business i can only feel for Phil Hatter and pigman
Im of the opionion that craem always rises to the top and the rest will find their Level;)
 
I just think its a change in my he way that expected now.95% of my client base wants a fully inclusive price for the duration of the contract , but just recentley ive been bit by "shanly homes" who clever little phase "ALL RISK" you really need to stay away from, the contractual obligations that you concider & they concider seem to be a million miles apart &alays at the detriment to us-never again will I ho anywhere near a job where I see that phrase again, reguardless of what promises are thrown your way in the prestart meeting!
 
Shanly homes have always been difficult contractually as are most of the housebashers. The clause 'ALL RISK' has been tried on for decades if you cannot negotiate it out before entering into contract then yo can kiss goodbye to any extras from adapting etc. Another old chestnut is 'Lump sum, fixed price' this combination of terms should be avoided as it means the contractor don't know what he will need so he is trying to limit his cost liability. Any additional works that happen will not be paid and their surveyor will tell you you should have allowed for this in your price.
 
Yep spot on. Heated discusstions where I tried to explain its a slanner not a fcukin magic wand often happened but trying to make them understand that how could I have priced something 6 mnths ago when they didnt even know they were gonna want it or without the assistance of an acurate method statement from them reguarding sequenceing etc why should I have to put up the same scaffold 3 or 4 times free of charge due to their mismanagement of the trades.
gotta be honest in my 16 years trading they have possibly been one of the most awkward& demanding customers ive had the mispleasure of workng with..mnever again
 
We all live and learn sp. Careful reading of the prelims normally helps you spot the dodgy jobs, if you clause out all the nasties you will lose the work, or they will add back the onerous clauses in the order and at the same time negate your T&C's. best to walk away and waste no more time.
The main reason surveyors are there is to screw down the costs and maximise the profit's to get his bonus paid - out of your pocket!
 
We keep getting asked to do work for a big company local to us, who ask for all risk fixed lump sum with no over hire, we've been asked to price 5-6 projects between 25 and 60 new builds each. I keep turning them down though and I think it's working. Big builders in the past had all the power to demand the best price and people were desperate during the recession. But it's changing now, the trades are gaining power. I emailed back last time and said I wouldn't do any work for them unless they paid over-hire which they were desperate enough to agree to pay. It turned out we were too busy at the time anyway but I won't go near a big job without over hire. I don't mind not charging hire of a small job, but never a big jog

Especially these ******* timebrrframes, which I hate anyway but they expect 30 of them up at a time and have the cheek to refuse to pay over-hire, bellends

This has just reminded me, they ended up with 3 different firms on the same site recently! Which in my opinion shows they are desperate and all the scaffs are busy :)
 
I just can't see how you can grow and provide all that's required these days if you leave your kit on site for 26 weeks for the same rate
I have always refused to under cut as it only drives the prices down ,
I use the same pricing structure I have always used and win enough to keep the lads busy ,
Don't get me wrong if it's a little old lady down the road that needs her roof repaired we ain't gonna look to bankrupt her and are happy to do it for cost ,
But these building company's need to realise that we are not a charity and if they expect good quality trained labour and good kit then they need to pay for it ,
The ones I like best are the ones that set an unrealistic budget and when they say we only have x amount ,
My normal answer is oh dear you need a cheap 2 Bob firm then mate :laugh:
 
You can grow & make money phil. Ive proven that unfortunately its at a slower rate than some bosses may wish.hare & tortoise spring to mind but growth in your company stock is an investment that will only mature upon an exit stratagy from your company.i can take on board many posts within this thread and understand your reluctance or even in ability to trade with no hire but for others like myself that have & successfully traded through 2 recession & stipl been profitible I think it would be financial suicide to say " right thats it u gotta pay a load more dosh now or I wont do it" would not only be meet with laughter but also the fact that when pricing against other companies who offer a similar price & normally win due to the service we provide we would lose all our work & within a very short time indeed our client base.
 
I don't mind fixed hire. We ask hw long do u need it for if they say 16 weeks we charge 18 weeks and say we will allow them 20. Which gives them extra 4 weeks but we wil then charge extra after that. Most firms happy with that cus they think they r gettin extra 4 weeks and it's gives them a bit of time if things don't go to plan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom