scaffolding qualifications (1 Viewer)

outward bound

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can I ask - what is your view on scaffolding training and what is your view on Qualifications ? the industries in the world are wanting qualifications and not just standardized training. standardized training is all well and good but it does not give the Scaffolders the recognition that it needs to.

For years Joiners / plumbers etc have all received formal qualifications for their professions but in scaffolding it is very minimalized with regards to qualifications on the open market.... CITB / CISRS are both standardized but neither are qualifications which people seem to think, of recent I did a lecture to a oil and gas company - who their believe was that CITB and CISRS were qualification's until I told them the horrible truth.......that this is just a standardized training program that any company can run. shock horror...
well that is the truth but I would like to hear your views on my comments as I believe these are extremely valid comments which should be heard around the world.
OW
 
This should stir up a hornets nest obo. Was a huge topic when the forum first started with eictb ticket not being recognised. The key word is qualified,not competent. Which the nasc have been trying to change. Considered a semi skill,and yet you hear of scaffolding apprentiships,??? or enroll on a weeks training course and come away with a ticket. Its such a grey area which course providers are taking full advantage of.
 
My understanding is that the CISRS Course is not a Qualification, however, the two Day assessment is…

Route to the Qualification: Attend Advanced Scaffolding CISRS Course, then attend the Two day assessment, on successful completion of assessment, a SVQ / NVQ level Three will be issued by the Awarding Body ( NOT CISRS )…

Principal Clients do not have a clue about the credence of Scaffold Quals Trained and Ticketed V SVQ / NVQ...
 
The card ain't the qualification. The NVQ or QCF is the official qualification regulated by ofqual. Under the rules of a QCF it clearly says a QCF is available to do at any time by anyone. It's all about small units of assessment where you have to achieve a certain amount of passes to qualify. If you ring a center to register to do the qualification they say you have to spend a grand, have 2 weeks off work and stay away from home for 2 weeks before they even enter you on one. Even if you had 50 years experience doing it. It's an assessment.
 
Maybe best to go back and tell the oil and gas company that unbelievably, it turns out that the scaffs are indeed trained and qualified, and have been for some time.
 
they have tried to mix both the CISRS with the NVQ - the problem is - the NVQ can be awarded to any company but the CISRS is a different ball game - why complicate things.... you do the course and you get a qualification why have 2 or 3 different associations trying to do the same thing- it should be one package not 2 - the CISRS and NVQ are 2 different packages ......open the market and let the qualifications be delivered easily and uncomplicated with a fair judgement on be becoming a supplier
 
No, sorry but I couldn't disagree with that more. History has taught us what your proposal could lead to, with the ecitb ticket being a good example but by no means the only one. CISRS is just a scheme for recording training and can be changed on a whim, something we have seen in the past. Attach the VQ to the scheme, and all of a sudden we now have a qualification we can be proud of, something UK employers are willing to pay for and foreign employers try and emulate. Better still, something that no matter what happens in the world, cannot be removed once awarded.

Leave the unregulated training where it belongs, and don't erode the scaffolders lot any further.
 
i agree history has taught us that training is required among st scaffolding personal and qualification my point is that should be just a qualification and what is required in that qualification is required end of - why should there be scheme ? the scheme is only training that is provided and which is standardized if the qualification requires training to be undertaken then it should state that in the NVQ, the CISRS is a training scheme and is not a qualification....that is fact no matter how you look at it..and so is the CITB, they are just a training organisations giving a card on completion of training..to obtain the CISRS scaffolders " scheme card " which the employers ask for you need to complete both the VQ and CISRS schemes hence your 2 separate bodies in one CISRS does not award the N.V.Q. every country will recognise the NVQ but the qualification net frame does not recognize CISRS or CITB as a qualification... do not get confused between qualification and training and who awards what... which comes to my point again why have 2 separate entities a qualification should be a qualification end of...that way the scaffolders would be able to obtain a clarification of their status in the industry
 
It appears that you may have missed my point. I am aware of which organisations are training bodies and which are awarding bodies, I have worked with both.

We need both for the reasons already stated but also, government targets for qualifying the workforce which in turn allows providers to draw down funding. Thankfully, I don't see that changing any time soon.
 
Thanks imk so you will know the cisrs is a training body that offers a scheme
And they are not a qualifying body...the funding is there for most trainings such has nebosh etc
Is it a money game, or is the interest in giving scaffolders both...if its both then why have 2 ?
Qualifications are there to help learners progress with an official qualification which is recognized by a government body for education...
 
My understanding is that the CISRS Course is not a Qualification, however, the two Day assessment is…

Route to the Qualification: Attend Advanced Scaffolding CISRS Course, then attend the Two day assessment, on successful completion of assessment, a SVQ / NVQ level Three will be issued by the Awarding Body ( NOT CISRS )…

Principal Clients do not have a clue about the credence of Scaffold Quals Trained and Ticketed V SVQ / NVQ...

So its possible to book an assessment without doing the course????:unsure:
 
Fredrik…no, do the CISRS 2 week Adv first, fill out Portfolio, do the 2 day Assessment for your NVQ, you need the Two Document to receive your Adv Card...
 
On site a few years ago,nvq graded assessment was given to some of the carpenters.When talking to the assessors they said they only had to watch/monitor competency of chippy in action ,use a few tools, a few pics for portfolio, view recent works. no proof of training required, fee was around 500.
Hence my quiery.
 
On site assessments were predominantly used to bring experienced workers into the new at the time CSCS scheme. It may still be possible to do the same for scaffolders who have completed their training and just require their final assessment, although it's been some time since I have heard of any provider offering such a service.
 
There's been threads on here before where people have just got their NVQ in scaffolding before doing any training with cisrs. Maybe a year or so ago. But he couldn't get work on site because main contractors wanted people with cisrs cards. Technically he was a qualified scaff with certificate to prove it. I maybe wrong but I'm 99% sure a NVQ or QCF as now known can be obtained without training with cisrs but you would have to find an assessor to assess you. Everything I've read about QCF quals completely contradicts what cisrs tell you. It clearly says level 2 in access and rigging(scaffolding) qua855 or whatever the number is. Qual is available to anyone with no entry requirements. So why do cisrs say entry requirements are completion of part 1 and 2. Who is correct a private company or the awarding body of a recognized qualification. Don't get me wrong I'm all for training but it makes my blood boil knowing that if a man wants to become a scaffolder he has no option but to pay 1 private company first. Mafia comes to mind.
 
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