Public Liability (1 Viewer)

oldscaff

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Am i right in saying, any company that have scaffolders without cards. There Insurance is not valid.
 
Good question and an intersting point.

I personally think this is going to come down to the 'compentency' criteria again and who deems the person to be competent.
A CISRS card holder would be deemed competent as for other cards or uncarded? mmmm, couldnt say for sure but the way things are going I think you could be right.
 
i know that if you could erect a scaffold to bs 5973,the council would accept it on one of there jobs,(rossendale council)it might have changed now,but thats how it was .:cool:
 
Depends on the Terms & Conditions (The small Print) of the Public Liability cover.They are not all the same
The "cards" are only one way of showing competency and being able to show you are competent would be the crux if you made a claim
 
Hi Rigger, maybe i didnt explain my post very well, i know scaffold firms in my area that have scaffolders with no cards at all. some have been scaffolding 15-20 years mainly on houses. They maybe competent but what happens if there is an accident.
 
Hi Oldscaff is that another way of saying oldschool :D

If the guys had no cards,and it came to a claim or a court case the lads would have to show thier competency by work records,other jobs erected and years scafolding,there would be questions asked as to the design of the job and had it being erected as per design

They would in my opinion be in a poor position when asked "why they had no reconised trade qualifications"
 
Hi Rigger, yes i suppose i am old school i was brought up on blue book sites. Where you done 3years to get your advanced card. It just annoys me to think these people are getting away with it.
 
Am i right in saying, any company that have scaffolders without cards. There Insurance is not valid.

not neccessarily. It is the duty of the employer to prove the competence of emloyees. A cisrs card is not a legal reuirement but is PROOF of competence and industry standard.
 
I know what you mean by not being a legal document, but how can it be proof when they dont have a card in the first place.
 
I asked this question to our IOSH guy and he said the same as I did. In the event of a claim you would definately have a hard job proving competence.

Imagine standing in front of a judge and pleasding your case, how would you convince him someone was competent. You could argue all you want but I doubt it would get you anywhere.
Even with all the correct paperwork in place, ie RA/MS, PPE so on and so on, claims generally work in the favour of the claimant.
 
does it really matter,as i beleive scaffolding is a skill,and not a trade,were not classed as a trade like joiners,brickys,plumbers,but were put through the grindstone for health and safety,when will they be put through it like us,when they qualify for there trade,they automatically can charge the earth.we have to argue with everyone for a decent wage.it might have changed now,but thats how i remember it.
 
Dont know about you, but I class myself as a skilled tradesman.
Time served and certificated. Learned the proper way though not through some wanky college in 18 months.
 
2 r8 Dave,i 2 class myself as skilled tradesman as well,what gets me is how does any1 get on site when 99% of site's i worked on require an induction where you have to produce a cisrs for scaffs or cscs minimum 4 a labourer
 
Well said Dave & Grum, like you Dave i like to think i earned my tickets the proper way. Numbnuts as for a skilled trade in my book yes it is 100%.
 
Good question and a great point. Insurers cannot (or should not) dismiss a claim purely on the fact that a Scaffolder does not carry the relevant 'cards'. that said, all employees should be competent in their job and be provided with the relevant PPE and equipment. Each contract or job has to have Method statement and risk assessments undertaken, otherwise some insurers can dismiss your claim as you have not followed the policy terms and conditions. I would be happy to check any documentation and clarify if you need to change the way you work to fit in with your insurance arrangements.
Dave
 
All i want to know is the Insurance Valid. not a lecture on some thing i already know about.
 
if your employees are competent and you perform method statements and risk assessments then it is valid - cards are not a requirement.
 
Back to the classic problem of proving competence without a card, in a court of law you would have a very hard job doing that.
 
MorganLaw, disagree with what your saying here so why are we spending all this money on cards. When your saying we dont need them.
 
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