bigfish
Moderator
Lol,aye me too,but they keep coming back,i've got a group repair that i'm being mithered to price aswell on the island,cant do that one either,it really has gone nuts,price hike me thinks
Tg 20 14
- Thread starter Flannel
- Start date
Lol,aye me too,but they keep coming back,i've got a group repair that i'm being mithered to price aswell on the island,cant do that one either,it really has gone nuts,price hike me thinks
I certainly won't be renewing my license, but I suppose some will. I think you would need to pick 1 system though and stick with it. I haven't felt like this since the last time I bought a beta max video recorder.
stonedrose1
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stonedrose1
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Are you kiddin? You would need another three men - one for each corner - and a method statement to blag one of those.
scaffy 1980
Well-known member
Whats a beta max.?.......are they the new nike air max...lol
Flynn Design Solutions
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You could use the eject button to get to the top lift of a job quicker than climbing!
joebag
Well-known member
Trip hazard wired remote control as standard, also no kunt could lift it to nick it
marra watson
Moderator
possible up load it to apple account and thne down load it to ipad threw i tunes maby thna again maby not
ask me ask me ill do more than 7 days a week lol
S
southernpoofter
Guest
Just spent the last 2hrs going through it & tbh really dissapointed & feel bum raped to the tune of£1200.
joebag
Well-known member
I know you're looking at it from your own business point of view sp but what in it do you see as affecting the average scaff on the street ?
Before I spend my hard earned on it, can you expand a little bit on your reason for feeling disappointed? Thanks
S
southernpoofter
Guest
ill try although it may be a little long winded and is gonna be a bit of a read and are purely my own opinions and observation,other guys with differnt curcumstances may disagree and think this is the best thing since sliced bread, but i will say that if everyone erected to this guide (most unlikely) than we wouldnt have 1/2 as much fun on here looking at all the photos lol
although on the nasc website it shows individual prices for :13 the suite can only be bought as a whole and costs £1200. and no-one can purchase any of the parts unless theyve allready bought the entire suite. which seems a little stupid to say the least - i understand the suite represents a major investment to the nasc ,which obviously needs to be recouped but this does not allow an individual scaffolder to buy the pocket guide.
the desighn guide is exactley what it sez on the tin and is aimed at desighners, full of facts and figures,charts graphs and the like of which info needed to desighn - do not get confused and think this is a design aid for you to bang up your own drawings and desighns cos it aint....most of the information in this version is replicated from the previous 20:08. so if we hadnt been forced to purchase it then we would have saved £250 on his book alone
the operation guide is full of information that a qualified and experianced scaffolder will allready know & in fact can be alternativly sourced, its the basis that we have all been taught under the citb & cscs - obviously that have now been some alterations from :08 such as bay sizes, bracing etc and most have allready been discussed earlier or on other threads. but tbh you will have covered all the information within the book on your courses, there is quite a detailed section on birdcages & ties/instalation but again this can all be sourced seperatley, in fact the individual sg & tg notes that non members can purchase from the nasc website cover them all and would be a lot cheeper to buy as well as free info you can download from the HSE website.
the main emphasis of this guide is the new basic desighns incorperated into compliance sheets,which can be adapted to a certain degree and printed off with the eguide. i think they could have gone a little further in this section and enclosed additional loading bays as the one shown isnt going to be practical all the time and defo should have put in a
t&f staircase desighn or 2. & they have done this with the chimney stacks, although again most guys use a beam to throwin onto the ridge this hasnt been covered. and the bridge sections use steel beams but do state that they can be supplimented with ali but you have to make sure they have the desighn loads the same as stated.
the problem i can see with this is that to the unqualified scaffolder posing as a scaffolder inspector there will be no room for movement and if it doesnt look exactly like the limited pic ( not a desighn drwg) in the book then they will cry foul and expect to see a desighn drwg.
The eguide is my biggest disapointment - in so much as the 1st thing that hits you is the impractability of only being allowed to load it onto 1 device/computer....ffs even skygo allow you to have it at home and 2 portable devices. but no, you would have to uninstall it from your computer and reinstall onto a laptop/tablet if you wanted to show it off at a site meeting- i fully understand that they dont want this to be abused but it would have been nice to be able to put it onto multi devices under the same product key...if i were a big company with say 4 supervisors on the road, i would want them to have the ability to have access to it without costing another £500 each.
once your get past the presentation of what looks like a gucci bit of kit you realise how limited it is. although you can change dimentions to a certain degree, on differnt types of basic structures (all of which are in the operational guide) such as a bridge or a loading bays. and it will then print off a "complience sheet" so for instance with a 3 bay bridge it will include a 3d picture and the info for the spacing tubes onto the chords etc, with a independant it will tell you the bay sizes and the tie patterns,but these are individual complience sheets,which you then save as a pdf and print off- do not get confused with this as being the definitive answer to all your needs, cos it aint, what this is not is a autocad where you can desighn your required scaffold insert a bridge where its needed then print it all off to show your client what its gonna look like.if thats what you need then i think the smartscaffolder autocad pack would be better suited
so for us the reason i feel a little bum raped is since :08 we have spent money on having generic drwgs done for many individual stuctues such as loadingbays, strcases canterlevers ,bridges etc which we put indivdually into a cdm pack along with the calcs and all the elements reguarding the materials used. so for instance a scaffold to be complient will hold all the written documentaion to show its type w12 3-4-2 then include a desighn for the loading bay & staircase etc. its quite comprehensive and may sound over the top but like the nasc eguide version onced saved as a generic type i can allways edit it to individual site needs,all the info i use has been gathered from either the nasc or hse with certain calcs for materials coming from either the British standard docts and requirements or a desighner - this method and presentation has been excepted as complient from all our contractors and sso. but after all the hype surrounding the release of 20:13 i felt we'd up the game and get the suite although looking at it realistically ,all we really required would have been the operational guide for £250.
i think the change over period for tg20:13 is june 2014, so if your thinking of getting a copy i'd wait till then and hope that they allow people to buy the items individually.or if you know someone thats has already bought the suite then get them to purchase you the op guide and a few pocket guides. i think this is a big investement for a company and obviously if all you do is tea & buiscuit jobs you proberbly wouldnt bother -like many small firms never did with 20:08 lol, but if you want to stay current with the regs and complient i dont think you'll have much choice, i'm hoping that after another couple of weeks of cover to cover reading i may feel differnt but i'm not gonna hold my breath
although on the nasc website it shows individual prices for :13 the suite can only be bought as a whole and costs £1200. and no-one can purchase any of the parts unless theyve allready bought the entire suite. which seems a little stupid to say the least - i understand the suite represents a major investment to the nasc ,which obviously needs to be recouped but this does not allow an individual scaffolder to buy the pocket guide.
the desighn guide is exactley what it sez on the tin and is aimed at desighners, full of facts and figures,charts graphs and the like of which info needed to desighn - do not get confused and think this is a design aid for you to bang up your own drawings and desighns cos it aint....most of the information in this version is replicated from the previous 20:08. so if we hadnt been forced to purchase it then we would have saved £250 on his book alone
the operation guide is full of information that a qualified and experianced scaffolder will allready know & in fact can be alternativly sourced, its the basis that we have all been taught under the citb & cscs - obviously that have now been some alterations from :08 such as bay sizes, bracing etc and most have allready been discussed earlier or on other threads. but tbh you will have covered all the information within the book on your courses, there is quite a detailed section on birdcages & ties/instalation but again this can all be sourced seperatley, in fact the individual sg & tg notes that non members can purchase from the nasc website cover them all and would be a lot cheeper to buy as well as free info you can download from the HSE website.
the main emphasis of this guide is the new basic desighns incorperated into compliance sheets,which can be adapted to a certain degree and printed off with the eguide. i think they could have gone a little further in this section and enclosed additional loading bays as the one shown isnt going to be practical all the time and defo should have put in a
t&f staircase desighn or 2. & they have done this with the chimney stacks, although again most guys use a beam to throwin onto the ridge this hasnt been covered. and the bridge sections use steel beams but do state that they can be supplimented with ali but you have to make sure they have the desighn loads the same as stated.
the problem i can see with this is that to the unqualified scaffolder posing as a scaffolder inspector there will be no room for movement and if it doesnt look exactly like the limited pic ( not a desighn drwg) in the book then they will cry foul and expect to see a desighn drwg.
The eguide is my biggest disapointment - in so much as the 1st thing that hits you is the impractability of only being allowed to load it onto 1 device/computer....ffs even skygo allow you to have it at home and 2 portable devices. but no, you would have to uninstall it from your computer and reinstall onto a laptop/tablet if you wanted to show it off at a site meeting- i fully understand that they dont want this to be abused but it would have been nice to be able to put it onto multi devices under the same product key...if i were a big company with say 4 supervisors on the road, i would want them to have the ability to have access to it without costing another £500 each.
once your get past the presentation of what looks like a gucci bit of kit you realise how limited it is. although you can change dimentions to a certain degree, on differnt types of basic structures (all of which are in the operational guide) such as a bridge or a loading bays. and it will then print off a "complience sheet" so for instance with a 3 bay bridge it will include a 3d picture and the info for the spacing tubes onto the chords etc, with a independant it will tell you the bay sizes and the tie patterns,but these are individual complience sheets,which you then save as a pdf and print off- do not get confused with this as being the definitive answer to all your needs, cos it aint, what this is not is a autocad where you can desighn your required scaffold insert a bridge where its needed then print it all off to show your client what its gonna look like.if thats what you need then i think the smartscaffolder autocad pack would be better suited
so for us the reason i feel a little bum raped is since :08 we have spent money on having generic drwgs done for many individual stuctues such as loadingbays, strcases canterlevers ,bridges etc which we put indivdually into a cdm pack along with the calcs and all the elements reguarding the materials used. so for instance a scaffold to be complient will hold all the written documentaion to show its type w12 3-4-2 then include a desighn for the loading bay & staircase etc. its quite comprehensive and may sound over the top but like the nasc eguide version onced saved as a generic type i can allways edit it to individual site needs,all the info i use has been gathered from either the nasc or hse with certain calcs for materials coming from either the British standard docts and requirements or a desighner - this method and presentation has been excepted as complient from all our contractors and sso. but after all the hype surrounding the release of 20:13 i felt we'd up the game and get the suite although looking at it realistically ,all we really required would have been the operational guide for £250.
i think the change over period for tg20:13 is june 2014, so if your thinking of getting a copy i'd wait till then and hope that they allow people to buy the items individually.or if you know someone thats has already bought the suite then get them to purchase you the op guide and a few pocket guides. i think this is a big investement for a company and obviously if all you do is tea & buiscuit jobs you proberbly wouldnt bother -like many small firms never did with 20:08 lol, but if you want to stay current with the regs and complient i dont think you'll have much choice, i'm hoping that after another couple of weeks of cover to cover reading i may feel differnt but i'm not gonna hold my breath
Do you think after spending all that money you feel your scaffold will be safer under the new regs or that you have to follow the regs just in case of a problem?
Are the regs changed for the sake of justifying the TG's or is there a problem that has been fixed!
The work we do the only positive changes over the last 10 years would be single handrails on all lifts & more ties in the building, we use the Apollo type fixings that are excellent. The other changes would be design & that is dealt with by the companies we use for a design!
I would not be able to justify spending £1,200 on something that I already know from a CITB blue book.
Ragscaff
Are the regs changed for the sake of justifying the TG's or is there a problem that has been fixed!
The work we do the only positive changes over the last 10 years would be single handrails on all lifts & more ties in the building, we use the Apollo type fixings that are excellent. The other changes would be design & that is dealt with by the companies we use for a design!
I would not be able to justify spending £1,200 on something that I already know from a CITB blue book.
Ragscaff
S
southernpoofter
Guest
We'll cont to erect as we allways have, & obviously incorperate any changes to bay sizes/bracing etc as required. But at the mo the only real way to find out about them is to read the operational guide.as long as ur rams are up to date i cant see a problem.i think if was changed to reflect the differences between losing the old bs into the new en regs that couldnt be used with t&f & was originally rushed through.
with requards to apollo ties ive never used them as i have a large stock of hiltirings although last year we did invest in a hydrojaws tester & put a couple of lads through so we can perform our own pull tests & handover certificates for them.
with requards to apollo ties ive never used them as i have a large stock of hiltirings although last year we did invest in a hydrojaws tester & put a couple of lads through so we can perform our own pull tests & handover certificates for them.
S
southernpoofter
Guest
Yup i can take the pain if you dont mind the shiit