Pull Testing Scaffold Ties (1 Viewer)

shed

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Can anybody tell me how often scaffolds that have a design drawing with tie details and a requirement for the ties to withstand a specific noted pull test loading actually get tested?
 
Can anybody tell me how often scaffolds that have a design drawing with tie details and a requirement for the ties to withstand a specific noted pull test loading actually get tested?
You have to go to a document called TG4:04 for that one Shed, ,you can do preliminary tests before you start erecting the scaffold to make sure the buildings fabric will take the tensile load.A sample of the anchors/ties shall be tested to a load of at least 1.5 times the tensile load. A minimum of 3 anchors/ties shall be tested and at least 5% (1 in 20) of the total job. TG4 04. Once they are in situ as far as I remember there is no requirement to test againg unless there is severe weather. I thinks the above is ok ,its been a while since I had to remember tg4:04
 
Thanks for that and in fact I am aware of tg4:04 - but what I am getting at is how often is it actually done - in my experience hardly ever - which renders all the good work of the lads to put it up exactly to design null and void - as if there is a problem with it the pull test has not been completed and therfore said scaffold company is in the s*it - would you agree?
You may aswell slap any old thing up if you are not going to complete a pull test as spec'd in the design?
 
Thanks for that and in fact I am aware of tg4:04 - but what I am getting at is how often is it actually done - in my experience hardly ever - which renders all the good work of the lads to put it up exactly to design null and void - as if there is a problem with it the pull test has not been completed and therfore said scaffold company is in the s*it - would you agree?
You may aswell slap any old thing up if you are not going to complete a pull test as spec'd in the design?
If your using mechanical ties you have to test them to be able to hand the scaffold over and thats not just on a designed scaffold thats any scaffold with mechanical ties.

We always test a percentage of ties as we have our own tester and lads trained to do the testing.If you have a look at a normal hand over sheet it will ask how many ties and what type.

The old problem occurs though as by its very nature TG stands for TECHNICAL GUIDANCE and is best practice and not mandatory, thats another story.

I would say that realisticaly the client should check to see that the scaffold has been tested before they accept the hand over cert ,they should be tested ideally by a 3rd party and not the scaffold company ,but this will cost the main contractor , and thats the key word cost!
 
As Russ said 5% of the ties my be pull tested or a minimum of 3no.

So a standard tie with a SWL of 6.1KN x 1.5 = 9.15KN (held for 30 seconds)

Note also that the pull tester needs to be calibrated every 12 months.
 
Thanks for that and in fact I am aware of tg4:04 - but what I am getting at is how often is it actually done - in my experience hardly ever - which renders all the good work of the lads to put it up exactly to design null and void - as if there is a problem with it the pull test has not been completed and therfore said scaffold company is in the s*it - would you agree?
You may aswell slap any old thing up if you are not going to complete a pull test as spec'd in the design?
XXIanXX would be the best man to ask on here Shed, hes in that line of work.
 
Thanks for that and in fact I am aware of tg4:04 - but what I am getting at is how often is it actually done - in my experience hardly ever - which renders all the good work of the lads to put it up exactly to design null and void - as if there is a problem with it the pull test has not been completed and therfore said scaffold company is in the s*it - would you agree?
You may aswell slap any old thing up if you are not going to complete a pull test as spec'd in the design?

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I totally agree with the above. Although we have carried out testing ourselves for a number of clients. Another thing I see a lot is hilti ties in brickwork or stone. Remember hilti only guarantee their ties into concrete
 
excalibur bolts seem the way forward in my eyes
 
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I totally agree with the above. Although we have carried out testing ourselves for a number of clients. Another thing I see a lot is hilti ties in brickwork or stone. Remember hilti only guarantee their ties into concrete
Ian a certain "uncle Albert" lookalike who you work with, told us on the CISRS Supervisor course that it didn't matter what surface you put you ties into as long as it passed the pull test, I dared to suggest that Hilti only guaranteed them in concrete and the person in question nearly had me doing press ups for my cheek !
 
Personally I'd always pass comment even if they did withstand the pull test as any equipment you use you should follow the manufacturers guidelines.
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Feck all I have going through my head now is "during the war":D
 
In these days of pull testing ties and having more ties in a designed scaffold its still mind blowing that dry liners and brickies happily remove them and deny knowing anything about it when it's picked up on the 7 day inspection if not sooner, depends where they dump the gear I suppose, on our project it's a red card to touch scaffold unless you work for us but after finding ties tampered with on at least 3 times no one even gets a warning, make you wonder that if the trade itself wants more ties and testing why won't the client protect our hard work , I'm sure it's the same everywhere or is it just my jobs lol
 
In these days of pull testing ties and having more ties in a designed scaffold its still mind blowing that dry liners and brickies happily remove them and deny knowing anything about it when it's picked up on the 7 day inspection if not sooner, depends where they dump the gear I suppose, on our project it's a red card to touch scaffold unless you work for us but after finding ties tampered with on at least 3 times no one even gets a warning, make you wonder that if the trade itself wants more ties and testing why won't the client protect our hard work , I'm sure it's the same everywhere or is it just my jobs lol
No .not just your job, we have just taken down 3 blocks of timber frame flats, the brickies took out all the braces and all the ties on the working lifts 3 times ,3 times we complained and nothing was done.
 
TG4 - Not Mandatory?

If your using mechanical ties you have to test them to be able to hand the scaffold over and thats not just on a designed scaffold thats any scaffold with mechanical ties.

We always test a percentage of ties as we have our own tester and lads trained to do the testing.If you have a look at a normal hand over sheet it will ask how many ties and what type.

The old problem occurs though as by its very nature TG stands for TECHNICAL GUIDANCE and is best practice and not mandatory, thats another story.

I would say that realisticaly the client should check to see that the scaffold has been tested before they accept the hand over cert ,they should be tested ideally by a 3rd party and not the scaffold company ,but this will cost the main contractor , and thats the key word cost!

Hi

Reading this about pull testing thread with some interest. With regards to the TG4 it isn't mandatory or law (i.e. hasn't been passed by parliament), however, in the absence of any legal requirement, the HSE will look for a guidance note/technical document that is considered best practice when they carry out an investigation....if it's out there in the public domain, then they will use it as evidence against the scaffolding contractor to get a prosecution. The example of this is TG20 or SG4. Neither are a legal requirement, but they are considered best practice with a published technical document in the public domain to back it up and therefore it is this that the legal powers will use to prosecute a company. With the new legal powers to convict under corporate manslaughter and the penalties for non compliance, I think it would be a fool hardy company that does not adopt TG4 and follow the principles. I advise scaffolding companies on health and safety and carry out pull testing and I always advise that they follow TG4 to the letter. Too many times I have had to fail a scaffold that has been erected perfectly to a design drawing, but has no pull testing in place to prove that the structure is secure and sound. Hope this helps.

Jules

(Hi Shed, hope your well!!!)

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

No .not just your job, we have just taken down 3 blocks of timber frame flats, the brickies took out all the braces and all the ties on the working lifts 3 times ,3 times we complained and nothing was done.

Funny that, ever seen a scaff with a trowel on his belt, yet every brickie I see has a spanner!!!!! Makes you wonder what the site safety manager does for a living!
 
Its a good point J, u make - that whilst TG4 is a guidance it will be used by HSE in the absence of law. I am happy that our membership for BMH Safety Systems for approved CFA tester is pretty much sorted and that any scaffold companies who need to get this detailed part of their procedure sorted can use our services at reasonable prices! Usually an offboard pull testing servide is not ran by scaffold industry specific bods - i think this is our unique selling point. Of course we will be able to supply the scaffold fixings to the companies that is specified by their engineers - all the same spec as Apollo fixings - but just reliable delivery aswell as good prices!
 
Its a good point J, u make - that whilst TG4 is a guidance it will be used by HSE in the absence of law. I am happy that our membership for BMH Safety Systems for approved CFA tester is pretty much sorted and that any scaffold companies who need to get this detailed part of their procedure sorted can use our services at reasonable prices! Usually an offboard pull testing servide is not ran by scaffold industry specific bods - i think this is our unique selling point. Of course we will be able to supply the scaffold fixings to the companies that is specified by their engineers - all the same spec as Apollo fixings - but just reliable delivery aswell as good prices!

Hi Shed, agreed, good selling point. Pull testing isn't pushed enough and our comrades in arms are leaving themselves open to HSE involvment more times then not. Hopefully this will change. Also nice to know there's a decent supplier of tying equiment around now!
 
What are you specialising in these days mate?
 
Specialist works etc etc

What are you specialising in these days mate?

I'm doing health and safety for scaffolding companies....H & S/environmental policy writing/risk and method work/harness inspection/SG4 training/pull testing and estimating and QS work. I have just got into some temporary works co-ordination work and technical surveying for design jobs. I've also started to supply tying equipment (HKD/Ring Bolt/Fisher ties/Thunder Bolts etc). Having to branch out and offer a 'one complete service' option....you now how it goes....what about you?
 
Totally agree that more companies need to start testing and that if not the HSE will use the guidence notes and go to town if they are investigated. Further more companies need to start using the correct ties for the base material, no more HKD's in BRICKWORK! The reason Hilti won't gaurentee them is because thay are only designed for use in concrete. The best brick tie is the eye type with the plastic plug, these offer very good loads well above the required proof loads. Without tie testing the anchors the base material cannot be proven to be suitable.
 
In these days of pull testing ties and having more ties in a designed scaffold its still mind blowing that dry liners and brickies happily remove them and deny knowing anything about it when it's picked up on the 7 day inspection if not sooner, depends where they dump the gear I suppose, on our project it's a red card to touch scaffold unless you work for us but after finding ties tampered with on at least 3 times no one even gets a warning, make you wonder that if the trade itself wants more ties and testing why won't the client protect our hard work , I'm sure it's the same everywhere or is it just my jobs lol

Put a do not remove tag on your ties bjc you,ve got them bang to rites this should not be happening. ;)
 
Put a do not remove tag on your ties bjc you,ve got them bang to rites this should not be happening. ;)
I was carryimg out a scaffold inspection on a Kier job in Lewes prison recently, the scaffolding contractor had done a fanastic job, following the design drawing to the letter, everything millimetre perfect. They put tags on their ties that state 'structural tie - do not remove' and also had the ability to write in the pull test results - much like a scafftag. The management told me that by using these tags it had virtually stopped tie removal by trades.......may be this could be an answer, that or imprison any one found removing tags and feed them on bread and water!!!!!! (on joking) but when will trades realise the danger they put us all in by removing a tie.
 
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