An interesting question on the IOSH Forum

This question was posted on the IOSH Forum. Wondered what your response would be?

"Dear Colleagues

With the implementation of TG2008 on January 2011 i thought i would ask how safety managers and site managers are going to now cope with these requirements.

The question of competency is the key factor here, I've spoken with the HSE on this matter and they were satisifed that if i get the scaffold at hand over inspected by an independent scaffold inspector with recommendations actioned by the scaffolder that it would it be ok for someone holding the basic scaffold inspection certificate to carryout the 7 day checks.

Obviously if the scaffold is adapted, modified or should we have adverse weather the same process should be followed once more,

I've no problem training my managers up to advanced status but my concern is placing managers in a position whereby they are out of their depth and obviously inconsistancy of inspections.

For info a typical 30 min independent inspection costs around £200 this seems like money for old rope given how many they can do in a day. Surely a common sense approach can be adopted.

What does everyone else think and does anyone know any in-house training providers?"

we had all our chargehands go through a one day inspection course in house before allowing them to sign off scaffolds - just to be sure
Cost us £260 per 5 blokes for that

The guy that does all our external audits and prepares the reports (a graduate iosh) charges 300 per day , usually get 3 or 4 scaffolds covered for that

Grim72
• Scaffold specifications will have to be more specific by organisations hiring in tubular steel scaffolding services;
• Scaffolding contractors will have to be more demanding when appraising hirers needs;
• Scaffolding Safety Method Statements, either as sketches or text will need a tad more comprehensive;
• Site Managers will have to become familiar with the revised classifications of ‘basic’ scaffolds;
• Hand-over arrangements will need to be more formal;
• To properly inspect an in-service tubular steel scaffold structure takes time – if it is to accurately reflect the condition of the structure at the time of the inspection;
• The inspection should be guided by the scaffolding contractor’s Safety Method Statement and the hirer’s specification;
• The time it will take – well how long is a piece of string?
• A well management scaffold structure erected in accord with the specification/Safety Method Statement and used within the permissible tolerances’ should be straight forward;
• A ‘messed about scaffold’ could take several hours (and arguments with possible contractual implications e.g. where a section of scaffolding has to be withdrawn pending remedial action)
• The suits (IOSH professionals!) will probably have a field day cross-examining scaffolders and not identifying misuse as against incorrect construction (which in my experience is very rare)
• WATCH THIS SPACE
Stumpy

Thanks for the replies to date. I will reply to the IOSH member once I have a few more replies with a link to this forum - I think he will find it of use.

Quote original post
"The question of competency is the key factor here,"

It is the only factor in my oppinion.the 2 and 4 day wonders are not competent to inspect scaffolds a ,decent part 2 would do a better job, they are also in most cases in the direct employ of the PC with other priorities such as costs,programme and time restraints.
A scaffold inspector must be independent of any commercial forces or pressure that may influence his report.I take time to explain to all my new clients they are paying for my scaffold inspection and findings.Not the one they may think I should produce

Quote "For info a typical 30 min independent inspection costs around £200 this seems like money for old rope given how many they can do in a day. Surely a common sense approach can be adopted."

The above quote informs me the poster knows very little about scaffolding or the inspection aspect,what is the "common sense approach"??

In my experience common sense is not so common

Rigger
Im with you recently inspected a scaffold it took all day!!
Tower Block on towers and beams the so called advanced inspectors missed 16 major faults ie Lack of ties,Ties on inside standards only!!!
My fees are for the day and not per scaffold and also you pay for the experience.
More than has been mentioned on here so far!!!!!!!!!
As you know there is no such thing as a typical scaffold
Scaffolding is not common sense it is a specialised trade!!!!
Pay peanuts get monkeys

This is the response from the IOSH poster. Thanks for the responses, looks like it was appreciated.


"Thanks Grim for sorting this out i've been reading some of the responses with interest.

I thinks its a case of suck it and see with the changes, my site managers are vastly experienced but would only spend 1 hr max inspected the scaffold every 7 days even i would struggle to pick up on some design issues and calculations so i will see how it goes and look out for any HSE enforcement to other companies.

I think there could be a danger of companies not inspecting at all now rather than say its safe when its not that way they would get hit by management failings and not incompetence of staff inspecting.

If you look over the City and West End of London you can easily lose count the amount of scaffolds seen anyone looking to start a new business can't go wrong in setting up a scaffold inspection service. "

Hi

I agree with your comments. All scaffolds should be inspected by a suitabley qualified person. The best course is the Basic and Advanced inspection and this leads to a CISRS qualification.

A good training provider is Elite Training Services. Contact Mr. R. Dent on 07866 559682. He does all scaffold training courses and trains for the CITB. He did my Advanced Scaffold Safety Inspectors course and will come to you to do training.

A scaffold inspection should be much more than a 30 minute look over whats there. Inspections should be indepth.

If your interested, I am a freelance health and safety consultant specialising in Scaffolding (32 years in the industry) and hold the required qualifications - my charges are more reasonable than you are being quoted and I know they're others that offer the same service. Give me a reply with your contact details or contact me through the forum and lets see if we can't help you out.

Jules