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Thread: (ASITO) Access and Scaffolding Industry Training Organisation

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve gregory View Post
    Could somebody post the minutes from the asito meeting. It's time everybody knew what is going to be happening within our industry.
    Apologies as a Canuck and being new to this forum,and I read too much,Robert Bellah observed"what is citizenship",dumb as s@#$ question translated "are you in or are you out?" I would ask what does it take to be in as opposed to on the outs?" Of course most riggers comment that I know more things that don't make me money than anyone they know,think I'll walk my dogs

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    i would ask what is this post above me all about pmsl.

    ---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

    yes indeed lets have the minutes please if they are available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celticbhoy View Post
    i would ask what is this post above me all about pmsl.

    ---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

    yes indeed lets have the minutes please if they are available.
    sounds like one of kendodds rants, ken translate please
    Have you ever seen a Mackem punch a horse






    GO THE EXTRA MILE. ITS NEVER CROWDED

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghatandy View Post
    Apologies as a Canuck and being new to this forum,and I read too much,Robert Bellah observed"what is citizenship",dumb as s@#$ question translated "are you in or are you out?" I would ask what does it take to be in as opposed to on the outs?" Of course most riggers comment that I know more things that don't make me money than anyone they know,think I'll walk my dogs
    Think this has come to the wrong place!!! Might be better on Canadian Ex pat

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    yip cross wires somewhere lads lol.

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    Hi Steve as an instructor working for the biggest training provider for scaffolding in the south we donot even get to see the minutes unless a manager leaves them on the table. Its all about keeping the power within the closed shop and what i have seen of them you are not missing much.

  9. #27
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    Might be relevant


    Dear Mr Quinney

    As discussed when we spoke last year there is no alternative to the Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme (CISRS) which is recognised by the construction industry as a whole.
    The only way your members can obtain the necessary Construction Skills Certification Scheme card (CSCS) is to meet the requirements of the CISRS.
    The transition process from the old card scheme has been in operation for some 10 years and had been extended for a further year to help your members confirm their competence in accordance with the requirements of the CISRS and thus be eligible for the necessary CSCS card.
    I am fully aware that you have very experienced and competent members but in the current climate legislation dictates that we all have to prove and confirm our capabilities at regular intervals, no matter what sector of construction we work in, and the old card scheme is no longer available.
    A two day Experienced Worker Practical Assessment (EWPA) is available to simplify the process should this be of interest.
    It is difficult to ascertain whether you or any of your members have contacted the National Access and Scaffolding Confederation (NASC) or the Access & Scaffolding Industry Training Organisation (ASITO). As Peter George has stated NASC are looking to help where possible to facilitate getting your members carded. However, if you would let me have a list of your members with a note of their qualifications and experience I will take up the mater with NASC / ASITO to look at the options available.
    Regards *******

    ********* FIoR

    Training Advisor

    Construction Skills

    My Reply


    Dear Mr ******,

    Thank you for contacting me.

    I have had a very busy last 6 months & do not recall the conversation with you.

    I have on several occasions tried contacting you.

    My first port of call was the NASC, they pointed me to CISRS, Mr Mosley who I have had a lot of contact with. We are currently putting a proposal together with the intent of being invited to attend the ASITO.

    It seems to me in this current climate that if you have been scaffolding 10-20 years then you are put to the back of the queue but if you are 18 or just out of prison then you can get an advanced scaffolders card within 18 months!!!

    I am sorry that the CITB or Cskills do not want to enter into a debate about the current situation. The issue of the old card scheme to new having a ten year period keeps coming up but the real issue has only been two to three years because no one asked for it before. Then you have employers faced with losing money or changing staff.

    The ECITB issue has forced good men out of work & out of pocket, you also have a lot of skills within the Industry that do not want to start at trainee because they are skilled men. I will pass your details onto my members as I am not in a position to pass out their details without permission. We are a non-profit organization & would not have the time to gain that permission to our membership.

    Any meetings we attend are at our own cost & we have & are willing to meet with any or all parties that are involved with this matter.

    Is it possible to get any minutes form the last ASITO's meeting?

    The fact that experienced workers have not been given the right information at the right time to gain like for like qualifications is a major issue for us & we will be perusing this till the end.

    Regards Stewart Quinney
    SCCR Chairman

    cc ECITB Sub Committee, Main Committee, Web Pages.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by instructor View Post
    Hi Steve as an instructor working for the biggest training provider for scaffolding in the south we donot even get to see the minutes unless a manager leaves them on the table. Its all about keeping the power within the closed shop and what i have seen of them you are not missing much.
    We want to know what was discussed and how the issue's in training are going to be resolved. Everybody should know what is going to be happening to training. This is what all this about and consultation and getting the word out to the field. People will make there own minds up.

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    I totally agree we should see the meeting mins keep pushing this

  12. #30
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    Default Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL)

    Has anyone tried using the RPL route to gain a CISRS card?
    I have tried but got nowhere as CISRS consistantly break the law by refusing to deal with this EU directive.

    See copy of letter earlier this year.
    My request was dismissed out of hand.

    From: Dennis Greenll
    Sent: 19 January 2011 14:06
    To: enquiries@cisrs.org.uk
    Subject: Recognition of Prior Learning
    *
    Sirs/Mesdames,

    ************* I am resident in the Republic of Ireland and I am writing to you both as a registered scaffolding trainer and as a safety officer for a number of scaffolding companies based here.

    * A good number of scaffolders are reporting that CISRS are refusing to acknowledge any prior learning of scaffolders from the Republic of Ireland and are stating that they have to start again at the lowest level.

    I also understand that you scrapped the "Route of Entry" programme a number of years ago.

    Could you please outline, in writing, what CISRS are doing by way of the RPL legislation in relation for scaffolders from other member states and from Ireland in particular?

    When can I expect you to have your system in place?

    Now that you have established a precedent with the approval of an internation providor in the Phillipines, will you now be consider the possibility of letting a scaffolding trainer, suitably qualified, registered and monitored, run CISRS approved courses in the Republic of Ireland?

    I also wish to note that as part of a bi-lateral agreement between FÁS and the CITB, it is understood that there is already recognition which is still displayed in the FÁS trainers manual and on the www.FÁS.ie website (see attached)


    Here is an outline of the Directive. ********

    The main mechanism by which professional qualifications are recognised is set down in EU Directive 2005/36 on the Recognition of Professional Qualifications. The purpose of the Directive, which came into force in October 2007, is to help make labour markets more flexible, further liberalise the provision of services, encourage more automatic recognition of qualifications, and simplify administrative procedures. Under the Directive, provisions are made whereby Professionals qualified in one (home) Member State can seek professional recognition of their qualifications in another (host) Member State for the purpose of practising their profession in that host Member State.


    Here is the relevant extract

    DIRECTIVE 2005/36/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
    of 7 September 2005
    on the recognition of professional qualifications

    TITLE I
    GENERAL PROVISIONS
    Article 1
    Purpose
    This Directive establishes rules according to which a Member
    State which makes access to or pursuit of a regulated profession
    in its territory contingent upon possession of specific
    professional qualifications (referred to hereinafter as the host
    Member State) shall recognise professional qualifications
    obtained in one or more other Member States (referred to hereinafter
    as the home Member State) and which allow the holder
    of the said qualifications to pursue the same profession there,
    for access to and pursuit of that profession.
    Article 2
    Scope
    1. This Directive shall apply to all nationals of a Member
    State wishing to pursue a regulated profession in a Member
    State, including those belonging to the liberal professions,
    other than that in which they obtained their professional qualifications,
    on either a self-employed or employed basis.
    2. Each Member State may permit Member State nationals
    in possession of evidence of professional qualifications not
    obtained in a Member State to pursue a regulated profession
    within the meaning of Article 3(1)(a) on its territory in accordance
    with its rules. In the case of professions covered by
    Title III, Chapter III, this initial recognition shall respect the
    minimum training conditions laid down in that Chapter.

    1. For the purposes of this Directive, the following definitions
    apply:
    (a) ‘regulated profession’: a professional activity or group of
    professional activities, access to which, the pursuit of
    which, or one of the modes of pursuit of which is subject,
    directly or indirectly, by virtue of legislative, regulatory or
    administrative provisions to the possession of specific
    professional qualifications; in particular, the use of a professional
    title limited by legislative, regulatory or administrative
    provisions to holders of a given professional qualification
    shall constitute a mode of pursuit. Where the first
    sentence of this definition does not apply, a profession
    referred to in paragraph 2 shall be treated as a regulated
    profession;
    (b) ‘professional qualifications’: qualifications attested by
    evidence of formal qualifications, an attestation of competence
    referred to in Article 11, point (a) (i) and/or professional
    experience;
    (c) ‘evidence of formal qualifications’: diplomas, certificates and
    other evidence issued by an authority in a Member State
    designated pursuant to legislative, regulatory or administrative
    provisions of that Member State and certifying
    successful completion of professional training obtained
    mainly in the Community. Where the first sentence of this
    definition does not apply, evidence of formal qualifications
    referred to in paragraph 3 shall be treated as evidence of
    formal qualifications;
    (d) ‘competent authority’: any authority or body empowered
    by a Member State specifically to issue or receive training
    diplomas and other documents or information and to
    receive the applications, and take the decisions, referred to
    in this Directive;
    (e) ‘regulated education and training’: any training which is
    specifically geared to the pursuit of a given profession and
    which comprises a course or courses complemented, where
    appropriate, by professional training, or probationary or
    professional practice.
    The structure and level of the professional training, probationary
    or professional practice shall be determined by the
    laws, regulations or administrative provisions of the
    Member State concerned or monitored or approved by the
    authority designated for that purpose;


    Looking forward to an early and comprehensive response,
    Yours faithfully,



    Dennis Greenall

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