Training companies raping the industry! (1 Viewer)

gunslinger757

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
807
Reaction score
0
Location
Newcastle
With more training than ever before, how come standards are as low as I have ever seen them. I'm working with a bloke, who is so incompetent he's downright dangerous. He's already caused one near miss on-site and has announced today that he's off next week to do his advanced course, which he is paying for himself - He isn't fit to have a basic card never mind an advanced card.

No doubt he will pass his course (let's face it, have you ever heard of anyone failing) and will be "qualified" to sign jobs off. I'm not a vindictive person by any stretch of the imagination, but this bloke will end up either seriously injuring or killing somebody. It's about time the training system was shaken up so you can only book a course on recommendation of a company or a qualified individual.

I also believe that each person on the course should have an individual other assessment rather than just passing gear to the blokes in the gang who know what they are doing. the National construction college and its affiliates should be hanging their heads in shame at some of the doughnuts they are turning out in the pursuit of a few quid!
 
weve got 5 or 6 young boys no older than 21 with part two cards who arent interested in scaffolding,just smoking pot and dropping gear!

Well if they're smoking marijuana all day they can hardly be held responsible for dropping the odd tube!
 
the whole system is a insult. to pass nvq portfolio you dont even have to erect scaffold just explain how and what you would do. thats not work based evidence
 
Whatever you put in place for evidence there would always be those willing to put more effort into circumnavigating the system than actually completing the course.
 
Theres something seriously wrong with the current system,dont yu think Aom?
enough on here complaining and suffering as a result of saturation and poor standards.
 
its been going on for ages now the training companies just keep taking the dollar and signing the doughnuts off and leave the fallout to us.
 
The worst thing is that the sheer amount of carded scaff's is driving down prices,wages,ect:(there was a time when scaff's were a fairly rare breed,no more.
 
It will start to ease off in the next couple of years when you have to take out a student loan to pay for your apprenticeship like when you are doing a degree.
 
Good post gunslinger , the problem as i see it is the lack of experience these so called advanced scaffolders have , i done the ARE about 7 years ago and one bloke in particular was absolutely useless, he done nothing but pass gear and copied everyone else's answers in the written test , guy was so stupid he couldnt even copy the answers right
The instructor even pointed out to him that he needed to learn to cheat better .
This bloke is now running big sites as a charge hand for a massive company its all about the MONEY mate pure and simple
 
It will start to ease off in the next couple of years when you have to take out a student loan to pay for your apprenticeship like when you are doing a degree.

If that's going to be the case, you might as well assume that there won't be anyone on apprenticeships in the future
 
the whole system is a insult. to pass nvq portfolio you dont even have to erect scaffold just explain how and what you would do. thats not work based evidence

An assessor looks at the evidence, most evidence is completed by the workbased recorder as in their foreman or employer. Who is deeming them competent before they submit their portfolio? One day when I was at another centre a woman rang from a company saying the kid who had just got his card was no good, the training manager went through his portfolio and said all his tasks have been signed off by the work based recorder, who was her husband who owned the company.

Next how many people come on here looking for help or evidence for portfolios, how many people tell them how to get round it?. That could be your next workmate.

Every story has two sides, but If someone fit the criteria to go on their advanced course no training centre would say no.

Ian
 
Good post gunslinger , the problem as i see it is the lack of experience these so called advanced scaffolders have , i done the ARE about 7 years ago and one bloke in particular was absolutely useless, he done nothing but pass gear and copied everyone else's answers in the written test , guy was so stupid he couldnt even copy the answers right
The instructor even pointed out to him that he needed to learn to cheat better .
This bloke is now running big sites as a charge hand for a massive company its all about the MONEY mate pure and simple

Phil we have had instructors on here before saying it was a problem for them to fail somebody, read flintys post there is someone in there place that no one wants.

---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

Good post gunslinger , the problem as i see it is the lack of experience these so called advanced scaffolders have , i done the ARE about 7 years ago and one bloke in particular was absolutely useless, he done nothing but pass gear and copied everyone else's answers in the written test , guy was so stupid he couldnt even copy the answers right
The instructor even pointed out to him that he needed to learn to cheat better .
This bloke is now running big sites as a charge hand for a massive company its all about the MONEY mate pure and simple

When I did some assessing for NVQs in the Gulf I actually went and watched the applicants at work. You cant believe anything in these portfolios.

One of the funniest things in nvq is it is a national qualification and you have to speak, write and read English or welsh. I had a guy with a nvq2 fail a basic scaffold inspection course because he could not read or write. He was from Nepal by the way.
You are correct it's always best to do site visits as the assessor.
 
Your right Simian the workplace recorder must take their fair share of blame , i used to make my apprentices come to my hose once a week and go through their portfolios with them to make sure they understood what they where doing.
I dont think its the training thats at fault i think its the time frame at which they qualify as scaffolders , to have a bloke in his early 20s who is advanced is ok in the classroom , but when it comes to experience and using your head to get around problems they just aint got it , and its not their fault because as far as they are concerned they are advanced scaffolders. Maybe after they get their tickets they have a limited amount of things they can do for a probation period ,i.e Not running jobs , not signing of work
Until they get more experience
 
Phil I could not agree more but that is not this system that is out there although there is no advanced apprenticeship in scaffolding so no one can get further than a part 2. However there is nothing stopping them getting funding for the advanced if they are under 25 because all of the money now for education is between 16-24 and it is stricter than ever to get. I always relate by to my training, it took me 7 years to get advanced through 1,2 and advanced and I was advanced at 30. This is what I tell most kids you need to learn and earn respect before you can be advanced correctly.
 
Phil we have had instructors on here before saying it was a problem for them to fail somebody, read flintys post there is someone in there place that no one wants.

---------- Post added at 07:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------





One of the funniest things in nvq is it is a national qualification and you have to speak, write and read English or welsh. I had a guy with a nvq2 fail a basic scaffold inspection course because he could not read or write. He was from Nepal by the way.
You are correct it's always best to do site visits as the assessor.

How are you doing out in the Gulf? I heard Velosi have it pretty much sewn up.
 
It's been pretty good in the Middle East this year we have carried out some real good training contracts and gradually getting our name in people's faces. Companies like you mention have been at it for 30 years so it will take a while to get as noticed as they are however we like a challenge. How's your job?
 
Moving slowly and there is a lot to do to put the company back on a frim footing. I can see definite possibilities and am considering staying here rather than taking the job offer back in Australia.
Pleased to hear things are going well for you. yes some companies have been at it for years if you get my drift.
 
Before I sign a portfolio I always watch them working ,if they are not good enough it doesn't get signed .
 
An assessor looks at the evidence, most evidence is completed by the workbased recorder as in their foreman or employer. Who is deeming them competent before they submit their portfolio? One day when I was at another centre a woman rang from a company saying the kid who had just got his card was no good, the training manager went through his portfolio and said all his tasks have been signed off by the work based recorder, who was her husband who owned the company.

Next how many people come on here looking for help or evidence for portfolios, how many people tell them how to get round it?. That could be your next workmate.

Every story has two sides, but If someone fit the criteria to go on their advanced course no training centre would say no.



Ian


There is indeed 2 sides to every story.
It almost sounds like you are suggesting that it would be the employers fault that a person might not be competent.
The training centres have to accept there role and responsibility for this. Scaffs realise at the training centres whether its NCC'S or private training that the paperwork is almost irrelevant because you will either be given the answers or someone will do it for you.
I have 14 years experience but due to attending a ******** training centre ive had to re-train.
In 7 months i did the part 1 , the part 2 and the Kwikstage system card. The way it is at the moment requires scaffs to learn and become competent while on the job but this is a situation that could/can result in accidents or even deaths due to INCOMPETENCE or just sheer stupidity.
In my opinion someone wishing to enter our industry should be labouring for at least a year before part 1 then another year before part 2 , then another year before final assessment.
This would result in more competent workers and it would stop the industry being flooded with incompetent people and too many scaffs in the industry.
BUT this would mean that the NCC'S and private training organsistaions would not be printing money because we know its all about the MONEY.
because of my own situation i can look at this and give a balanced and fair assessment of what is wrong and what needs to be done , AND I KNOW IM FUCKIN RIGHT. someone tell me im not.
 
Top Bottom