Petition on SG4 10 & TG20 08 (1 Viewer)

R

ragscaff

Guest
The following was posted on Linkedin on a thread anyone heard of this petition?

'' there is a petition doing the rounds which argues the point against SG4:10 and TG20:08 if it comes your way please sign it!''

Ragscaff
 
why have a petition against either of them. 1 is safety guidence and 1 is technical guidence. this doesnt make sense?
 
Linkedin.

Scaffolding Market place.

Look for discussion on NASC formed 1945 etc.

:D
 
Found it!!


Please answer this survey it could save our businesses.

The scaffolding industry is represented by the NASC. Recently, with their backing, TG20:08 and SG4:10 have been introduced. These have put incredible onuses on scaffolding contractors that make an already difficult industry almost impossible to manage.

According to the Introduction of SG4:10, in 2009 a scaffolder fell from a scaffold every 1.36 million manhours. Why do we then have to have 56 pages of instruction to improve this record by changing our whole work ethic?

Had scaffolds been falling down every week whist they were being erected under BS5973 there may have been a requirement for new legislation; but they were not. TG20:08 is purely about trying to make traditional scaffolding conform to European system scaffolding.

Why are scaffolding contractors having to take the responsibility of designing scaffolds at tender stage? Do contractors send building plans and say to an electrician "Quote for some lights and power please?" No. So why do scaffold contractors get treated differently?

Please answer this survey if the results are positively against these legislations then we will look at ways of removing them.

It is OUR businesses, OUR trade specialism, it's time to
FIGHT BACK!



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No client information is stored when completing this survey and all responses are anonymous.

Take this survey


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Don't usually agree with the NASC but they do have a point.Are there any surveys on scaffolders falling before and after all this legislation?Someone quoted some statistics during a toolbox talk about harnesses,he said since their introduction falls had been reduced,great but when asked was that scaffolders the answer was no it was all trades that use them.I think this industry and the scaffs are getting milked dry by so called safety organisations.I am an advanced scaffolder who on a site can't put up alloy towers,any type of system scaffolding,put a hoist up,erect cradles.25 years ago I could do all this,not now, well unless I fork out a small fortune.Yet step outside a site and you can do anything you want.The scaffolding firms need to get together and say enough is enough.The thing that bugs me is do brickies need a card to put up trestles with the hand rail system?Do sparks/dry liners/joiners need a card to use those stupid steps with handrails on?
 
All good points 1969scaff, I'm sure manufacturers instructions will cover the erecting of podiums usually supplied as a demo for sales purposes but I might be wrong. There is also quite comprehensive figures recording falls from height before and after legislation but as always statistics can be argued against but the powers that be will feel justified in doing what they are doing by reading them. It's also a fact that if the scaffold industry didn't act the HSE could well have insisted on other more expensive measures like all lifts to be fully boarded which I believe was discussed.

One thing that I do agree with is the supplying of drawings at the tender stage, I have asked that question myself a few times now and finally got a drawing from a client for the first time just the other week, so I am hoping that is the start of a shift in that direction.
 
Very rarely do we get a drawing before we tender , which can make it a gamble sometimes as you never really know what the designer will design , then once the price is in you cant back track :(
 
Very true Phil, we have still have a drawing of a lighthouse round here from about 6 years ago which I was promised will be going ahead. First and last time I made that mistake, it does put a lot of pressure on you to then get a design and get the job kicked off in a reasonable time from winning the work. You can add what you like on your quote, once they have decided you are doing it they want it up now.
 
Whilst I was on my NEBOSH course we did spent a fair bit of time on working at heights. One of the instructors came in with some statistics regarding falls from heights. I forget the exact figures but industries such as ours & roofing, people who generally spend our entire working day at height had the lowest number of recorded incedents. The main culprits were window cleaners & arial fixers. You could never call these 'professionals' when it comes to working at height & I'd darest say they receive very little training regarding this & also the equipment they use. I made the point that because of these idiots bumping up the figures we as an industry (I was a roofer at the time) are being made to suffer with tighter legislation & methods of work while the real culprits are essentially being overlooked & allowed to carry on regardless.
It's about time the powers that be leave the true professionals alone & allow us to do what we do unhindered & concentrate more of an effort into bringing other industries up towards our standards.
 
The thing that bugs me is do brickies need a card to put up trestles with the hand rail system?Do sparks/dry liners/joiners need a card to use those stupid steps with handrails on?

.

The work at height regs says they should be competent
.
5. Every employer shall ensure that no person engages in any activity, including organisation, planning and supervision, in relation to work at height or work equipment for use in such work unless he is competent to do so or, if being trained, is being supervised by a competent person.
 
Found it!!


Please answer this survey it could save our businesses.

The scaffolding industry is represented by the NASC. Recently, with their backing, TG20:08 and SG4:10 have been introduced. These have put incredible onuses on scaffolding contractors that make an already difficult industry almost impossible to manage.

According to the Introduction of SG4:10, in 2009 a scaffolder fell from a scaffold every 1.36 million manhours. Why do we then have to have 56 pages of instruction to improve this record by changing our whole work ethic?

Had scaffolds been falling down every week whist they were being erected under BS5973 there may have been a requirement for new legislation; but they were not. TG20:08 is purely about trying to make traditional scaffolding conform to European system scaffolding.

Why are scaffolding contractors having to take the responsibility of designing scaffolds at tender stage? Do contractors send building plans and say to an electrician "Quote for some lights and power please?" No. So why do scaffold contractors get treated differently?

Please answer this survey if the results are positively against these legislations then we will look at ways of removing them.

It is OUR businesses, OUR trade specialism, it's time to
FIGHT BACK!



Anonymity statement
No client information is stored when completing this survey and all responses are anonymous.

Take this survey


This email was sent to *************** by sales@asgl.co.uk |
Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy.
Affordable Facilities Limited | 65 Weir Road | Wimbledon | London | SW19 8UG | United Kingdom

This is not my quote I have just copied it onto the forum for debate :eek:
 
Has there been any records made of actual instances of scaffolders falling and been saved by their harness, this should be recorded as a dangerous occurrence

Where the fxxxxxg spell check it’s a scaffolder’s forum for fxxxk sake
 
It's a very good point that deserves discussion.

I honestly thought we were.:embarrest:

I also thought SSS point was that SG4:10 was just guidance and not law so not sure how a petition would help there as if you don't want to follow it you don't have to. TG:20 08 is a European standard we are all expected to follow but it has opened up a can off worms for a lot of simple jobs and generated a lot of work for designers. Hopefully, TG20 15 will resolve a few of these issues.
 
I honestly thought we were.:embarrest:

I also thought SSS point was that SG4:10 was just guidance and not law so not sure how a petition would help there as if you don't want to follow it you don't have to.

No I'm pretty sure it's law, as the WAHR IS law, and SG is about how you work within the law. I've heard of cases where scaffs have fell then been prosecuted while they recover in hospital because they didn't adhere to SG rules (infact the SG booklet mentions this)

TG is purely guidelines, and as far as I know you can only be prosecuted if it all comes crashing down.....
 
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