Petition on SG4 10 & TG20 08

Flinty said:
No I'm pretty sure it's law, as the WAHR IS law, and SG is about how you work within the law. I've heard of cases where scaffs have fell then been prosecuted while they recover in hospital because they didn't adhere to SG rules (infact the SG booklet mentions this)

TG is purely guidelines, and as far as I know you can only be prosecuted if it all comes crashing down.....
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SG4 is just NASC guidance, which obviously shows ways of confoming to the WAH regs.

SG4 is not law but the WAH regs most certainly is. So if you can find a better way of scaffolding other than an option given in SG4:10 that conforms to the WAH regs, then crack on - you're doing nothing wrong....
 
im sure both would fall under ACoPs in a court of law. they would fall back to guidence.
 
phil181 said:
SG4 is just NASC guidance, which obviously shows ways of confoming to the WAH regs.

SG4 is not law but the WAH regs most certainly is. So if you can find a better way of scaffolding other than an option given in SG4:10 that conforms to the WAH regs, then crack on - you're doing nothing wrong....
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Thats true. One question though Phil cause I'm unsure, did the WAHR change when SG changed? Or did our guidelines back then allow us to, in effect, breach the WAHR for the sake of simplicity and safety?

I mean if they didn't we would have been open to prosecution by following our own guidelines by this sense?
 
Flinty said:
Thats true. One question though Phil cause I'm unsure, did the WAHR change when SG changed? Or did our guidelines back then allow us to, in effect, breach the WAHR for the sake of simplicity and safety?

I mean if they didn't we would have been open to prosecution by following our own guidelines by this sense?
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I believe SG4:05 appendix A was introduced to keep up with the WAH regs requirement to introduce collective fall protection over personal fall arrest equipment.
 
Ok thanks mate.

I suppose in court they will always look at what the "official" guidance is, veer away from it at your own peril....
 
Don't want to go into a long spiel.
Basically SG4 is the industries guidelines to to enable us & our employers to operate within the WHAR. The regulations which are statute law are wide & varied to cover every single person who works at height. Every industry has it's own set of guidelines within the regs, SG4-10 is what's considered as the safest practise for scaffolders to carry out their duties within the regs.
To put it in a nutshell the regs state that our employers have a duty of care to provide us with a safe place of work & we also have a legal duty to follow their instruction & to protect our own safety & all others affected by our actions.
In the event of a prosecution the HSE will refere to SG4-10 first as it is the guideline we should all be working under (method statements RA's, advanced handrails etc) if they find nothing wrong with that THEN they will revert to the WAHR to nail you.
 
I'm not sure I get that one, surely if they find nothing wrong with your working method they wont be interested in nailing you?
 
Possibly true Aom, but the point I'm trying to make is SG4-10 isn't all encompassing regarding the WAHR. So if the HSE are after a prosecution they will use WHAR & the entire HSWA to get you. As an ex employer & manager it's fooking frightening at times the Shiite you can be in through the actions of one of your employees.
 
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Yeah, agreed. I have always suspected that no matter what you do should something go wrong you are for the high jump. The rules and regs seem to be worded to that end to me anyway, all you can do is the same as the insurance companies which is to spread the blame far and wide and protect yourself as much as possible with training and paper work which would reduce much of the liability.
 
True mate. Sometimes it seems the whole the whole point of RA's & MS' etc is just to cover your own arse. That's why it's always advisable to put in the section "sign here to state you have read & UNDERSTOOD this.
Remember, Shiite only rolls downhill. :blink1:
 
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