View Full Version : Design Issue

23rd November 2010, 05:32 PM
We are a small Scaff Contractor currently engaged by one of the biggest Construction companies in the country on one of their new Housing Developments.. The scaffolds we erect are the run-of-the-mill 4 & 2 board wide Independent with 1 working lift and as such do not require a Design Drawing... Today the site manager said that he wanted access down the side of a particular house which is partly built with 3 lifts of scaffolding around it. HE suggested "Cantilevering from the 1st lift to the 2nd lift" and then "sthil sawing the redundant sections of standards out"... Its obvious what he's wanting but when i mentioned that it needed a Design Drawing he just laughed and said the usual "i thought you had an Advanced Card" and "don't worry, i'll say i told you to do it"
Yeah Right......

I persisted with the Design issue and that he should at least check with the Health and safety Director/CDM-C at (their) head office and if he (Director) said go ahead i'd be happy to do the alteration.. I felt confident that the H & S director would put the site manager in his place and and order him/us to get the Design... Yep, you guessed it, his reply was "as long as they have cards they can do the alteration"...
I'm Paranoid now..
Am i over reacting in saying the Design is required in the first place or are they out of order in being so blase about the whole thing......... Any comments would be welcomed

Regards.. Tomcat....

23rd November 2010, 05:44 PM
Tomat it is a what suits them mate i have seen a thread on here where a company wont except a generic drawing/design for a site where all the houses are the same on a large site
get an order and charge them for the variation :)

23rd November 2010, 06:03 PM
Phillmax, The variation charge goes without saying mate, will also charge them for new tube after cutting..........

23rd November 2010, 06:16 PM
Show him this then get it in writing that he doesn't give a f..k what the HSE say.

Health and Safety

Scaffold checklist
This guide is intended to clarify when scaffold design is required and what level of training and competence those erecting, dismantling, altering, inspecting and supervising scaffolding operations are expected to have obtained.

Design and inspection issues
Unless a scaffold is a basic configuration described in recognised guidance e.g. NASC Technical Guidance TG20 for tube and fitting scaffolds or manufacturers' guidance for system scaffolds, the scaffold should be designed by calculation, by a competent person, to ensure it will have adequate strength and stability.
All scaffolding should be erected, dismantled and altered in accordance with either NASC guidance document SG4 for tube and fitting scaffolds or the manufacturers' erection guide for system scaffolds.
For scaffolds that fall outside the scope of 'Basic Scaffolds' as described in bullet point 1, the design information should describe the sequence and methods to be adopted when erecting, dismantling and altering the scaffold, if this is not covered by published guidance as detailed in bullet point 2.
Any proposed modifications or alterations outside a generally recognised standard configuration should be designed by a competent person.
Handover certificates should refer to relevant drawings, permitted working platform loadings and any specific restrictions on use.
All scaffolding inspection should be carried out by a competent person whose combination of knowledge, training and experience is appropriate for the type and complexity of the scaffold he is inspecting. Competence may have been assessed under The Construction Industry Scaffolders Registration Scheme (CISRS) or an individual may be suitably experienced in scaffolding work and have received additional training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme for the specific configuration he is inspecting.
A non-scaffolder who has attended a suitable scaffold inspection course and has the necessary background experience would be considered competent to inspect a basic scaffold (ie a site manager).
The scaffold inspection report should note any defects and corrective actions taken, even when those actions are taken promptly as this assists with the identification of any recurring problems.
To prevent use by unauthorised persons of incomplete scaffolds, relevant warning signs identifying the areas where access is not permitted should be displayed at the access points to these areas. In addition, access to the incomplete areas should be prevented by suitable physical means.
[Back to top]

Competence and supervision issues
All employees should be competent (or in the case of trainees, supervised by a competent person) for the type of scaffolding work they are undertaking and should have received appropriate training relevant to the type and form of scaffolding they are working on.
Employers must provide appropriate levels of supervision taking into account the complexity of the work and the levels of training and competence of the scaffolders involved.
As a minimum requirement, every scaffold gang should contain an appropriately qualified scaffolder for the type and complexity of the scaffold to be erected, altered or dismantled. This may be an individual who has received training under an industry recognised training scheme, e.g. CISRS, and has been awarded the scaffolder card or someone who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme, to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
Trainee scaffolders should always work under the direct supervision of a qualified scaffolder (i.e. a working foreman). Scaffolders are classed as 'trainees' until they have completed the approved training and assessment required to be deemed qualified.
Erection, alteration and dismantling of complex designed scaffolding (e.g. suspended scaffolds, shoring, temporary roofs etc) should be done under the direct supervision of a competent person. This may be a qualified Advanced scaffolder, a design engineer providing they possess the necessary industry experience or alternatively an individual who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
[Back to top]

Scaffold structures that need to be designed
1.Dead Shores
2.Flying shores
3.Raking shores
4.Cantilevered scaffolds
5.Truss-out Scaffolds
6.Access Birdcages
7.Façade retention
8.Access scaffolds with more than the 2 working lifts allowed with TG20 'Basic Scaffolds'
9.Buttressed free-standing scaffolds
10.Temporary roofs and temporary buildings
11.Support scaffolds
12.Loading Bays founded on the ground
13.Mobile and static towers outside base/height limitations
14.Free standing scaffolds outside base/height Limitations
15.Temporary ramps and elevated roadways
16.Staircases and fire escapes
17.Spectator Terraces and Seating Stands
18.Bridge scaffolds
19.Towers requiring guys or ground anchors
20.Offshore scaffolds outside Offshore Contractors Association (OCA) handbook
21.Pedestrian footbridges or walkways
22.Slung and Suspended scaffolds
23.Protection fans, Nets and Pavement Frames
24.Marine scaffolds
25.Boiler scaffolds
26.Power line crossings
27.Lifting gantries and towers
28.Steeple scaffolds
29.System scaffolds outside users guide parameters
30.Sign board supports
31.Sealing end structures
32.Temporary Storage on Site
33.Masts, Lighting Towers and Transmission Towers
34.Advertising hoardings/banners
35.Any scaffold structure subject to:
High Loading
Long term duration
High risk areas
Loading from passenger/goods hoists

23rd November 2010, 07:00 PM
top post IAN

24th November 2010, 09:03 AM
If it is only a simple cantilever on a basic scaffold as you say above then you may be able to take a photograph and send to your designer.

If the Designer is happy that it works okay then just an e-mail confirmation should be sufficient for the small cantilever that you are talking about, without a full drawing.

Hope this helps.


Chris Eng

24th November 2010, 05:52 PM
Yep I know the feeling. HSE says needs a design,OK, Scaffolder says needs a design, we get funny looks! (or don't get the job)