ECITB V CISRS status (1 Viewer)

Dave Abe

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
86
Reaction score
0
After reading a lot of threads on here regarding ECITB and CISRS I think it is time to compare these two cards status.

We also need to keep in mind that the NASC or CISRS has not took the ECITB card away, the WAH regs state you must have training and that is a good point to start with.

ECITB Card
How was the card obtained?

Card obtained by completing an application form, stating what grade you wanted issuing.

Did you require experience?

Yes

How did you have to show experience?

Supervisor / Foreman, Manager or owner confirmed who the applicant was and how long in the industry and which grade was being applied for. Must be stamped by company.
If I am wrong with this please do correct me as it's been a while since I have seen one of these forms..

Could you fail?

Impossible nothing to fail and we all know the story about the 8 year old girl (if not read back through the threads / posts)

Another few facts on this card:

Yes may have experience now but I wonder how many never prior to being issued the card? (I am aware of some and no doubt others are)

Most Petro/Chemical sites work to the Blue book and companies working on these sites would have to keep an even ratio of workforce and applying for a ECITB card was cheaper option if they where only guaranteed short term work (an argument for the union for allowing it I suppose, should have insisted the workforce received correct training).

Lads who had Part 2 CITB cards watching ECITB lads being issued an equal grade card as them or in some cases higher without completing training and not even been in the game as long as them. Once issued the card in some cases got a better hourly rate and a better pay packet.
Again in some cases when the bladdering match came along CITB gone and ECITB kept due to having an higher grade and the site required an even ratio.

CITB or the modern name CISRS To any the same questions above please see the following link http://www.cisrs.org.uk/CISRS_General_

Pass / Fail

To comply with the Caps 609 above, the centres must work to the CISRS Management scheme Caps 609 A.

This states a pass / fail rate for the theory test of 76%.
On the practical side, the instructor should assess and mark him for each activity and then make an assessment.
I can only answer for the centre which I am involved in and we use an assessment form which is sent to the course sponsor / employer. The marking system is as follows:
A = Excellent
B = Good
C = Average
D = Poor
F = Fail
LTC = Letter to Company

Big question how many have fail, again answering for the centre which I am involved approximately 20.
If the candidate fails the theory then a re-sit test can be done 2 weeks after completing the course, if candidate fails re-sit test then the full course must be taken again..
Fail on practical, full course taken again with a letter to the company, stating what the candidate must do prior to returning.

If a candidate scrapes through then it may be a case that the instructor will write to the company stating that the candidate must wait 12 months prior to returning for a part 2.

Apprentices are different as they do a Foundation, Part 1A, Part 1B, Part 2A, Part 2B and a final Diploma Week. If an apprentice fails or is not ready to move on to the next level then we move the apprentice back a group until the apprentice is ready. We also issue a letter to the company stating what is required back at site in order for the apprentice to improve.

ASRE I see this getting mentioned for the ECITB scaffolder. If anyone took this route then I am sure it was for Advance scaffolder status only and you had to have your Basic card for so many years (please do correct if I am wrong), so how can we do an ASRE for a ECITB scaffolder into card scheme which requires you to obtain training to claim your status.

Lets waiver the fact where the money is coming from and if the government is giving free funding for CISRS courses why not take advantage.

I do not see any ECITB people speaking on the forum stating what they are doing to resolve this matter for their card holders??

Yet I have read on here training centres, CISRS and NASC are expected to resolve this issue and foot the bill?
 
Last edited:
Fair enough Dave but in my limited experience I can't agree with all you say regarding current cisrs training, the boy's I send are no better after training than they were before and I can't help feeling disappointed every time a boy comes back and stand with his finger up his nose and wonder what the hell is going on. All scaffs trained and ticketed is a great idea but as we spoke about earlier what is a guy with 20 years behind him going to learn on a part 1 course and if you cant teach him anything in that time what's the point? You spoke of the older guy learning about reg changes but you would need to live on the moon not to hear of reg changes now a days and with them changing all the time is that going to be another excuse to pull the scaffs in for more training, lets hope not.

I know we are going round in circles a bit but I honestly cant get my head around guys doing training and not learning anything, it's beyond belief. How about admitting there is a unique problem here that has been created from the mis-management of others and deserves a unique solution?
 
If you have sent lads and not happy when they return speak to the centre AOM,. If you have not had feedback from the centre then request it.
 
Spoke to them a million times Dave, it's a national programme and their not changing it for me. I know everyone learns at different speeds but if you can't challenge an 18 year old apprentice how are you going to hold the attention of a 45 year old bear?
 
I agree with AOM that this whole arguement on the forum is just going around in circles and the only thing coming out of it is that people are dividing up and getting sumwhat nasty to each other.

As for training centres not performing, that is a slightly seperate issue. It does cross over into the arguement as AOM says as owners want value for money when paying & sending employees.

I think it is just one great big mess and it requires someone alot wiser than me to sort out. Just wish that this blame culture would just go away and that we could all live a life without having to cover your @rse for everything.
 
I would certainly go to the scheme manager if the centre arenot listening AOM.

I can only speak on the centre I work in and we are very hard on the apprentices; most of time comes down to there attitude and who they have been working with on site.

I would also say that companies need to assess who they are sending and if not ready do not send and give them an action plan stating what you as an employer require fronm them before sending.

If you are ever in the Warrington area call in for a brew and I will show you around our centre and our SSOW.
 
never heard of anybody failing any course personally,and for the test hahahahahah lol,boys tell you they sit with the answers dave.good bit of history into the eictb card though thanks for that.
 
Celticbhoy should be exam conditions and the candidates should have no information in front of them, other than a test paper that is.
 
your right dave sowhy are these practices allowed am sure its not procedure mate.
 
Again I can only answer for the centre where I am, the lads are not allowed any info with them during the test. The tables are cleared of any info.

If this is the case anywhere else then it is wrong?

We also do not give the test result out till the Friday and the instructor has a 1-2-1 feedback with the candidate going through the assessment sheet for the 10 days of training which is sent to the employer.
 
Thanks Celtibhoy

We are new kids on the block, and we employee people with many years experience in the industry.... We are still working on things to make it better in our centre and we rely on feedback from candidates on the end of course evaluation to help us improve.
 
very true i hope the comments and discussions on here can be taken into account and used to produce better facilities courses and most of all young scaffolders,as they are the life blood and they are in your hands dave best of luck.
 
ASRE I see this getting mentioned for the ECITB scaffolder. If anyone took this route then I am sure it was for Advance scaffolder status only and you had to have your Basic card for so many years (please do correct if I am wrong), so how can we do an ASRE for a ECITB scaffolder into card scheme which requires you to obtain training to claim your status.

My card states Basic Scaffolder ASRE NVQ level II Dave, had the ECITB grade 4 for a lot of years and got sent for my Assessed Route of Entry bout 5 years ago because I dug my heels in about running 20 men with a Qual that was getting phased out, glad i did otherwise i'd be in the same boat as a lot of others just now.
I think the criteria for acceptance to the course was 5 years provable scaffolding experience
 
Thanks for the feedback tinhead, did you have to have a Part 1 to do the ASRE for your Part 2?
 
My card states Basic Scaffolder ASRE NVQ level II Dave, had the ECITB grade 4 for a lot of years and got sent for my Assessed Route of Entry bout 5 years ago because I dug my heels in about running 20 men with a Qual that was getting phased out, glad i did otherwise i'd be in the same boat as a lot of others just now.
I think the criteria for acceptance to the course was 5 years provable scaffolding experience

Hi Tinheads
Glad to see you back on m8.
 
nope, started monday and did the name the scaffold component test, then got told to erect and strike an independent scaffold and static tower by yourself, mobile tower allowed help to get the casters on, then 3 handed for birdcage, putlog, truss out, cantilever drop, pavement gantry and roof stack. then had the written test to finish on friday.


Hi Paddy, just got back from working in aberdeen this week, hopefully be around a little more now
 
Last edited:
I think the problem is towards the end the ECITB card was abused by certain people in the same way the CISRS card is being abused now. I have held the ECITB card for 20 odd years and am also paying myself for the so called training of the CISRS. I have completed the part one and as I have said before out of the 9 people on the course 4 should not have gone through as 2 had to copy my test paper as requested by the instrustor and 2 could not build the required 2 jobs, tower and independent, but still walked away with a pass and a card. I have got my part 2 booked for January 2011 at the cost of another £1400 with 1 day assessment and another 2 weeks off work. I hope this is not just another turn up and pass course as I will feel cheated.
Cheers
Frenchy
 
frenchy your sentiments are echoed throughout the whole country mate,the tales of these so called training centres beggers belife at times,the pass rate must be astoundingly high....i myself have never personely heard of a fail.i was about to wish you good luck on your up coming course but summit tells me you wont need that fellah.
 
Top Bottom