Training (1 Viewer)

S

steve gregory

Guest
so im compiling a survey as to what you would most like to see changed within the training of scaffolders.. something for the NVQ board to look at.. this is not a pop at CISRS or anybody else , your thoughts please.. what youd like included and what needs changing..
 
Hi Mate

I would like to see an onsite assessement brought in, where a Scaff is looked at on site where the work is beinhg carried out, then an exam like an open uni type thing.

Ive got 5 lads been in the game 20 years great workers but family men, have not got tickets as they dont want to go away for 5 days x2 and leave the wife & kids, + costs, the nearest training from Basingstoke is 85 miles away, so cant go to and from every day !!

Why cant the bloody CISRS bring in the weekend course again !!! at least they could do that over 2 weekends not 10 days.

Platinum
 
The whole training scheme as it stands sucks big time.
How anyone can honestly say they can take a noob off the street and make them a fully qualified and competent scaff in 18 months I dont know. Totally wrong on all levels.

A proper apprenticship would be a good move in most cases.
Problem with that is that CISRS wont want it as its not a money spinner. Returns on traing over 18 months isnt so bad, waiting 3 years for a return, not so good.
Without better onsite supervision and assessment I dont really know what you could do to ensure people get the 'proper' training.
 
i heard a rumour that NVQ was going & skills testing was going to replace it;)
 
NVQ not very qualified is wat they say they will make you do hand signals when pushing a wheel barrow next.
Bring back the apprentiships we have had lads and lets all be honest who are part 2 and been away to colledge for there 10 day training and f.ck they still cant do the job and then want more money and still cant do scaffolding....BETTER training mate thats the answer not just pass them through and take the pass money
 
CISRS earn nothing but the touch screen test out of an apprentice, the government dictates an apprentice must finish in two years from 6 months experience to part 2 i.e. 2.5 years. Construction skills or someone else act as a managing agent pay the centre 6k and the company who employs them 5.5k.

I would like the NVQ dropped as it is filled in by bosses because the trainees cannot be bothered. So its just a complete fiddle. One thing with apprentices is they have to do exams and base out on their own to pass. This should be in place for all scaffs. BIN NVQ it was only added to the scheme so everyone could get a CISRS card and funding as the level 2 is equivalent to 5 GCSE's.
 
Hi Steve
The biggest bone of contention I have with the way the C.I.T.B run their schemes is the fact that they don't let the trainees finish their training. They are taken up to NVQ level 2 or basic part 2 and then nothing. I've said on another thread about all this and it really gets my back up, what is the point of a semi qualified workforce.. I've even got the paperwork for my trainees' third year of training, but have been told point blank that they wont be receiving the training. I understand the point that some people have of a young twenty something telling a forty year old how to do the job, but does this not show how long this has been going on. I think they should be given the training on the third year and then be assessed on site shall we say two or three times a year over the following three years by a competent,qualified scaffolder and then do the final assessment and receive their cards if they pass the assessment. it would both show that they remember what they have been taught and show that they use pest practice on the job..
Rant ended :wacko::wacko:
 
Hi Mate
Why cant the bloody CISRS bring in the weekend course again !!! at least they could do that over 2 weekends not 10 days.

Platinum



yeah, would be nice


can you still do the approved route (think thats what it was called)?

you had to do a portfolio


been years since i ever talked about this so dont know
 
Hi Steve
The biggest bone of contention I have with the way the C.I.T.B run their schemes is the fact that they don't let the trainees finish their training. They are taken up to NVQ level 2 or basic part 2 and then nothing. I've said on another thread about all this and it really gets my back up, what is the point of a semi qualified workforce.. I've even got the paperwork for my trainees' third year of training, but have been told point blank that they wont be receiving the training. I understand the point that some people have of a young twenty something telling a forty year old how to do the job, but does this not show how long this has been going on. I think they should be given the training on the third year and then be assessed on site shall we say two or three times a year over the following three years by a competent,qualified scaffolder and then do the final assessment and receive their cards if they pass the assessment. it would both show that they remember what they have been taught and show that they use pest practice on the job..
Rant ended :wacko::wacko:

citb or cskills as they are now wont fund advanced

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

i heard a rumour that NVQ was going & skills testing was going to replace it;)

best rumour i have heard for weeks. Like it.
 
keep these coming these will be used to compile the evidence needed for a forth coming meeting I have coming up ....you wanted the voice and the SCCR wants you.
 
citb or cskills as they are now wont fund advanced

Then why have the paperwork for it rumple ??
 
how about a course that you actually have to pass rather than just attend . how many people do any of you lot know that have actually failed a scaffold couse . the way it is at the minute if you have money for a course you are good enough to be a scaffolder . if you cant afford the course then your not . also there should be a bigger gap between courses say part 1 to basic 3 years and basic to advanced three years . then you wouldnt get 18 - 21 year olds with advanced cards trying to tell people with more experience what to do just because they have a higher ticket .
 
citb or cskills as they are now wont fund advanced

Then why have the paperwork for it rumple ??

dunno, i think its down to government money. They used to do it thats why they still have the paperwork. The CITB are on their a**e, if they dont get funding they wont put it in their self.
 
Currently I have done part 2 course but need to complete portfolio and then assessment.

For me I find the portfolio thing hard work. Like most I feel confident scaffing most jobs but as a company we only do streetwork. It is hard to get the right job and the strict procedure of what you need in a picture. Agree that an on-site assessment or even just scrapping the pictures part and have a more indepth Q&A about certain types of jobs would be great.

I have stated before that I think that the training centre I went to in Birminghma was good as it did give me alot of paperwork to take away and read through. That is were the problem lies in my opinion as it is left to the individual. I am sad and find it interesting so have read through it a few times but i fear many just leave it in a bag somewhere and go claim their pay rise without actually learning the stuff
 
I'm certain when doing your assessments if you don't know what your doing you will fail, you can't go through a 1 or 2 day assessment and blag it.. the instructor will have seen you scaffold for 10 days prior to the assessment, so will know if you can do the job anyway... I know 1 who failed the part 2.. also 2 who failed pasma, but these 2 wernt scaffs,
 
I to agree with Allan . I had to work through my tickets with the companies I worked for footing the bill . It cannot be right that if you have a couple of grand to spare you can say " I fancy that scaffolding game , I will just do the training and get my cards " . A three year apprenticeship is the way ahead .
 
Last edited:
Its been stated many times on this site that the NVQ is the proof of competence not CITB training. Yet the support network the training centers offer during this vitally important part of a scaffolders training and assessment on the route to "Carded Status" is virtually none existant .

The attitude of the training centers seams to be NVQs are an inconvenience and the onus is on the candidate or the candidates sponsor to complete the evidence portfolio of work based assessment.

IMO the training centers are failing the candidates and sort changing the sponsors, in which I include myself and all other tax payers, as well as Scaffolding Companies and self funding individuals. Many have just give up on the portfolios and never completed the NVQs . Proof that the system was failing was the introduction EWPA . A scheme designed by the CITB for candidates who have completed Part 1 and 2 training and for whatever reason never completed the portfolio and returned to the training center for the practical assessment (the final part of the the NVQ process) The training centers are failing the candidates by offering very little post training support, rather than on site visits and assessment they prefer to keep every thing in house. NVQ assessors/instructors are singing off candidates as competent without ever physically observing them during their day to day work activities .

I believe the proof of "competence" would be better served by taking the assessment process away from the training centers and their portfolios and into the work place . We need site supervisors foreman and chargehand scaffolders to be involved in the process. Training them to be assessors and sign off the VR units needed to obtain NVQs in access and rigging operations. By observing and assessing in the work place on a day to day basis . I am sure there are many experienced scaffolders who feel they have something to offer during the training process without actually wanting to be come fully fledged scaffold instructors . An onsite assessor would be spot the areas of weakness of the candidates and help with a bit of old school on site training .
They would also be a link between companies and the training centers offering valuable feed back to both . making sure companies are getting value for money and candidates are receiving quality and relevant training .
 
Agree with allan entirely,should be assessed on ability to scaffold,rather than just turn up to look interested in what is complete unchartered territory to the majority of youngsters gaining cards,its a f.cking joke....:mad:
 
years ago if you larged it you got a thick ear or they gave you a job up high or a hanger
if you couldnt do job you were !unted all week it soon shut the no it alls up. you do it
now your end up in court.
 
Top Bottom