Tg20:08 (1 Viewer)

paddy carr

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Hi all
has anyone else done the Intro to TG 20:08 induction,yawn, yawn.
As you,s are all aware we now cannot put a foot tie round a rabbit hutch unless we have a drawing/design by calculation.

The new proforma of TG:20 08 that was meant to aide the scaffs as in clear perimeters of our op;s in my opinion have drove another nail in the coffin of SME's

As all the old spanner hands will know, the job was sorted over a couple of shandy;s lol. wrote on the back of a Tab pkt.

Please dont get me wrong, H&S is my new course of action, however, why take the ability of a fully trained competent scaffolder, out of the equation when it comes down to design of a scaffold. What do those guys that get a fancy bit of paper and a nice software package know, about topping off,droppers and needles, cantilevers,truss outs and flying shores.
 
Aye, Paddy M8

I can remember the time that the Boss would show you the job and leave you to it. The Scaffs would conduct a Pre-Task Analysis, establish a Safe System of Work and Method Statement, calculate a Bill of Quantities, Safety Management Strategy and select the appropriate Correlation, Permutation and Configuration of the Structure and then they would spring aloft and Erect it, from conception to completion.

Now, we have 3/4 office Waller's to do all the jobs ( all of the Above ) that the Scaffolder did, exept the actual Erect. Then they have the audasity to venture out of their nice warm offices for a breath of fresh air and stretch their legs and proceed to nit pick our work.:wacko:

Should Line Management and Scaffold Design Engineers be drawn from the ranks of qualified Scaffolding Erectors ?

Garry...
 
Hi Gazza m8 my learned friend.
The way forward in my opinion is simple, let the guys that do the jobs, ie, the scaffs, that want to advance their career have the oppurtunity to take any course that they want.

I rember 31 years ago when i fist started 'Humping the 21's' there in the toilet block written on the wall was a 'Ode to a scaffolder'. Strength of a shire horse, speed of a racehorse and brains of a rockyhorse. Those days are long gone and i am glad of the fact.

Nowadays, a Scaffolder is a well trained competent person, he/she will have a well documented portfolio that can used to there advantage on gaining promotion/advancement and recognition of there achievements, also in my opinion, a scaff is more aware of H&S regs, than most on site, even the gaffers.

Paddy
 
Most scaffolds now apart from the basic ind are now classed as advanced structures,and according to the powers that be should be accompanied by a drawing relevent to the job,hence extra cost to firms to get a engineers drawing.Its all about arse covering now.
 
TG20....What a farce that has been, I was at an NASC presentaion when they rolled out TG20:05, it was explained to us by a couple of boffins who just talked pure gobbildy gook!! It went straight over my head until someone who had been on the tools did a translation!! As it turned out a lot of it was wrong (Ledger bracing and Plan Bracing details to name but 2 areas) and had to be re-written at great expense to the NASC and to which we now have the TG20:08

In regard to advanced structure, we basically took the plunge and had prepared by the Engineer we use "Standard Design Solutions" for stuff like loading towers, stair towers, pavement gantries etc etc and just change to suit...we have found it a very cost effective way of getting around the situation.
 
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PW,

Was it also true that the tw@t who decided to cut the facade brace down to every 5 bays failed to take the tie patterns into consideration, and now we are back to every 6th bay.:embarrest:

Money well spent there kidda..!!!

Cheers,
Phil.
 
Phil

It was a group of Engineers commisioned by the NASC to put the document together, so obviously no common sense applied!! The item you mentioned was indeed an error on their behalf but I think the biggest one was they assumed that the HSE & others wanted ledger bracing ommited as per system scaffolds for unobstructed passage along a fully boarded structure hence all the additional tieing and plan bracing in the T&F scaffolds in TG20:05, they took the document to print and indeed rolled out the new scheme based on this assumption.

This I was informed was simply not the case and the HSE were quite prepared to accept ledger bracing in the structure despite the ledger brace obstructions....Big re-write....Big embarrassment...Big cost.

It put quite a smile on my face when we recieved our 08 rewrite F.O.C. :D
 
TG20:05 is it freely downloadable would like to read up on it:)
 
"Should Line Management and Scaffold Design Engineers be drawn from the ranks of qualified Scaffolding Erectors"

Absolutly 100%, had this discussion on IOSH Forum. :idea:

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

Orac
"TG20:05 is it freely downloadable would like to read up on it"

Nothing is free from the NASC
 
Scaff

One of our fellow Forum Members, Podger has just signed up for an Open Uni Engineering Course---the SSG is going to give him all the assistance we can---10 out of 10 to the Podger for pickin up the challenge.
 
Good luck to podger.

I've got plenty of work to send your way when your done.

Hhhhhmmmmmm:idea: Got any info on that course?
 
Hi All

I see a lot are not happy with TG20:08 or us office wallers ( scaffold designers ).

Unfortunately in this new world of Liability Claims, Health and Safety, Insurance, etc and everybody wanting to cover themselves from the Client to the erectors it has involved more paperwork not just drawings, but risk assessments, method statements.

TG20:08 has not changed a lot from BS5973 in what is required in a scaffold, the free toolbox powerpoint presentation on the NASC covers the changes. First time I have looked at this and was surprised to see something in the pages.

Sorry if we upset you guys, but we are trying to help, REALLY.

Chris
 
hi chris just looked at your profile and noticed that the design drawings are multi colur is there a reson for this as all the drawings you get on site are black and white thank you
 
Hi jamie ryan

I do all my models and the final drawings in 3D. I use blue for standards, green ledgers, red transoms, yellow braces, beams black, etc. It is easier to see the different tube types when moving around the drawing and looking at the Isometric views.

Another reason is that it is brightens my life up, as working in black and white can be boring all day. Looks prettier in colour too.

You may only get black and white on site if the printer / plotter is only black and white. but also depends on the designers preferences.

All the best

Chris
 
they are top class drawings dont get me wrong. is this the new way all scaff designers do their drawings or is it just your own way
 
I think I am the only one who designs in 3D all the time.

Some others do it only for presentation stuff or occasionally.

I prefer drawing in 3D as you can get a proper feel for how the job will go together, as I have to almost build the scaffold, but without all the spanner work and heavy lifting.
 
Scaff

One of our fellow Forum Members, Podger has just signed up for an Open Uni Engineering Course---the SSG is going to give him all the assistance we can---10 out of 10 to the Podger for pickin up the challenge.

Think you have mistaken me for some else Gaz mate, still doing my designs on the back of a regal packet

My brain is still fried from putting together the NVQ 3 portfolio :nuts:
 
Designers should have a working knowledge of erecting - should be a requirement.
I was on the tools for years, then went to uni to do structural engineering.
Now a designer - It shocks my clients when i can still stand a long up and pass it up to 'em!
 
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