Estimating in hours (1 Viewer)

liam

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Could anyone tell me how many linear metres erect for 1no hour,and how many extra boards per hour, also the rate per hour.
 
How long is a piece of string....?

The basic answer is it all depends on the type of lift being erected. But it used to be 8ft/10ft per target hour with 10 boards per hour extra above the first boarded platform. The target hourly rate was usually quite low, if your average hourly rate was a tenner then your target rate would be a fiver (2:1 ratio)


I know I'm going to ramble on with this but...

The AVERAGE output for a 2 man gang is approximately 10 metres every hour, complete with boards and double guardrails for a base lift and 12 - 15 metres per hour up to the 4th lift or until top out when it will drop back down to the base lift value again.

But before you apply that to an 8 hour day they are only really productive for 5 to 6 hours of the day, the other hours are taken up with breaks, smokes, nattering, walking to the job, wash up etc etc.

So if the production only consists of 5 hours inthe AVERAGE day. That would equate to 50 metres for a 2 man gang on the base lift and upto 60 - 75 metres on the 2nd/3rd.

Easyfix/Readylock will increase the production by 15% and a system scaffold by 50%.

As regards to a rate, your average hourly pay out rate to a scaffolding gang would be used i.e. chargehand = £120/day and top hand = £100 per day = gang pay out of £220.00

Therefore the target rate is £220.00 divided by 50 metres for base lift = £4.40per metre run and £220 divided by 60 metres for 2nd and 3rd = £3.67 per metre run.

On top of this we have on costs (EL & PL, NI contribution, PPE, holiday stamp etc) typically this amounts to 40% increase.

From this we can easily do an example.

Take a typical detached house 3 lifts (hips ends so no table lifts) 10 metres frontage 12 metres side.

10m + 12m + 10m + 12m + returns one way at 4 no. @ 1.5metres = 50 metre run

so base lift 50 metres x 4.40 = £220.00
2nd lift 50 metres x 3.67 = £183.50
3rd lift 50 metres x 3.67 = £183.50

total = £587.00 plus 50% to dismantle = £880.50

add on costs @ 40% = £1232.70

< 4 weeks hire period (50% Labour Return) = £2465.40 (16.44 per metre run)
4 - 8 weeks hire period (45% LR) = £2737.78 (18.25 per metre run)
8 - 12 weeks hire period (40% LR) = £3081.75 (20.55 per metre run)

Of course the more productive you can make your operatives will reduce this metre run rate and still give you the required margin to have a profitable business.

I hear of companies in at £12 per metre run on housing sites and stating they are making money...well yeah they are if they dont believe in paying for their gear and replacing it, and they dont service it and their trucks are on their last legs and they dont believe in training for the lads.
 
Well said that man - you have heard of companies doing that we know first hand of several large firms doing that due to the amount of work we have lost this year

Take it you pay pricework to then
 
Still do now and again, but not often.

And here's why...

When you are in the unfortunate position of having someone take a fall because they are not clipped on, the HSE will ask you this question after the first one of "Can I see your risk assessment for todays task"... The question is "Was that man on a bonus to complete that work?"

How the F**k can you answer that without opening up a can of worms.

Irrespective of whether it was the operatives fault or not the blame will be levelled at the firm that they coerced the operative to work harder and therefore less safe because of having his rate of pay related to how fast he could work.

So we find its a balancing act. Balancing a decent daily rate to an achievable expected output for the day. Some days we lose, some days we win.
 
my answer to the HSE inspector would be, no we did not coerce the operative to work harder and less safe we provided our operative with all the ppe that he required , we supplied and explained a method statment to him, he has been given a full company induction, and the price for the works include for all safe methods of work to be utilised for within his working day, he cut corners completely of his own accord
 
true , and so long as the documentation and signed off rams was there to back up then all would be gravy
 
Totally agree with Supersscaff75 and Scaffy, thats how we implement our systems. But we have had experience of HSE asking the question about production bonuses and making the comment that incentive schemes make operatives work unsafely.

As we stated to them our incentive schemes are related to safety, reward is 50% safety based and 50% production.
 
well said that man - il make a mental note of that for if we get asked !
 
How long is a piece of string....?

The basic answer is it all depends on the type of lift being erected. But it used to be 8ft/10ft per target hour with 10 boards per hour extra above the first boarded platform. The target hourly rate was usually quite low, if your average hourly rate was a tenner then your target rate would be a fiver (2:1 ratio)


I know I'm going to ramble on with this but...

The AVERAGE output for a 2 man gang is approximately 10 metres every hour, complete with boards and double guardrails for a base lift and 12 - 15 metres per hour up to the 4th lift or until top out when it will drop back down to the base lift value again.

But before you apply that to an 8 hour day they are only really productive for 5 to 6 hours of the day, the other hours are taken up with breaks, smokes, nattering, walking to the job, wash up etc etc.

So if the production only consists of 5 hours inthe AVERAGE day. That would equate to 50 metres for a 2 man gang on the base lift and upto 60 - 75 metres on the 2nd/3rd.

Easyfix/Readylock will increase the production by 15% and a system scaffold by 50%.

As regards to a rate, your average hourly pay out rate to a scaffolding gang would be used i.e. chargehand = £120/day and top hand = £100 per day = gang pay out of £220.00

Therefore the target rate is £220.00 divided by 50 metres for base lift = £4.40per metre run and £220 divided by 60 metres for 2nd and 3rd = £3.67 per metre run.

On top of this we have on costs (EL & PL, NI contribution, PPE, holiday stamp etc) typically this amounts to 40% increase.

From this we can easily do an example.

Take a typical detached house 3 lifts (hips ends so no table lifts) 10 metres frontage 12 metres side.

10m + 12m + 10m + 12m + returns one way at 4 no. @ 1.5metres = 50 metre run

so base lift 50 metres x 4.40 = £220.00
2nd lift 50 metres x 3.67 = £183.50
3rd lift 50 metres x 3.67 = £183.50

total = £587.00 plus 50% to dismantle = £880.50

add on costs @ 40% = £1232.70

< 4 weeks hire period (50% Labour Return) = £2465.40 (16.44 per metre run)
4 - 8 weeks hire period (45% LR) = £2737.78 (18.25 per metre run)
8 - 12 weeks hire period (40% LR) = £3081.75 (20.55 per metre run)

Of course the more productive you can make your operatives will reduce this metre run rate and still give you the required margin to have a profitable business.

I hear of companies in at £12 per metre run on housing sites and stating they are making money...well yeah they are if they dont believe in paying for their gear and replacing it, and they dont service it and their trucks are on their last legs and they dont believe in training for the lads.
Many thanks Plymouth Rogue,very helpful information.

---------- Post added at 08:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

Many thanks Plymouth Rogue,great information.very helpfull
 
One more question is how do you take into account design fees? It seems designers are so different in their fees that it is difficult to know for sure.
 
Q Silver,

Send all the info: dims, client's drawings, photo's etc (as much as you have) to your designers and ask them to give you a quote for the design. Thats what I do for my clients if they need it, the more info they can send, the more accurate price I can give - same as you guys estimating really.

B.
 
hi there wondering if you could give me an idea of price as this is a field that im not to sure about ive got a job which is 15m by 15m by 10m inside of a church could be tube or quick stage ( scotland prices ) a help would be greatfull
 
hi there wondering if you could give me an idea of price as this is a field that im not to sure about ive got a job which is 15m by 15m by 10m inside of a church could be tube or quick stage ( scotland prices ) a help would be greatfull

Your looking at around £3000 for cash , which includes your diesel and a bit of cash for the lads bate..

Give us a shout if you need any more help
 
I would say around £3000 - £3500 depending on how far you have to transport your gear and how far the boys have to lug it once you get there. Some of these old churches are a good distance from where you can get the truck. Also consider you may need a design as the chances are you wont be able to drill in to a church as it may be listed and buttressing could be needed.
 
Be more like £6000 in London is it independent each side and bird cage at the top lift cause thats a lot of boards mate
 
That's not how I read it Phil, length breadth and height is how I priced it, if it became a massive birdcage at the top it would obviously be much closer to your price. Remember he did ask for Scottish prices, it's a bit like the house prices only cheaper.:amuse:
 
still comes to 75 square mate and all the dam seats to work around and the vicar looking over his shoulder at you its going up the more i think about it mate we done a few like that and they are pure hassle make it £9000 :D

on a serious note make sure your insurance is aware as damage can be expensive , last one we done a builder burst a pipe in the organ and it cost £60,000 to repair :eek:
 
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