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SF Admin
27th August 2009, 11:16 AM
ASITO is made up of representatives of the NASC, the Construction Industry Training Board (CITB), the Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme (CISRS), employee representatives from TGWU and UCATT and the Construction Industry Joint Council (CIJC). The aim of the Group is to develop training to meet the needs of the industry.

steve gregory
8th November 2010, 11:33 PM
Time the SCCR got the invite.

ragscaff
23rd January 2011, 08:39 PM
How do we get an invite?

Stewart Quinney
SCCR

scaffy
23rd January 2011, 08:46 PM
bachanders and blow the nasc commitee off

paddy carr
23rd January 2011, 08:51 PM
Ask the NASC or CISRS mate, they are all the same ASITO different name same conspiritors:cry:

instructor
23rd January 2011, 08:59 PM
What are you going to bring to the table if you can get any of the power brokers to listen to you?

paddy carr
23rd January 2011, 09:08 PM
One phrase Instructor mate, Why not Consult, it cant be that hard, now there is a point of contact, SCCR.

instructor
23rd January 2011, 09:16 PM
Hi paddy I just think that when someone is holding all the cards and have all the major players ears in the industry. consulting anyone outside the click is the last thing on there minds.

paddy carr
23rd January 2011, 09:31 PM
Hi paddy I just think that when someone is holding all the cards and have all the major players ears in the industry. consulting anyone outside the click is the last thing on there minds.

Totally agree mate, but why should it be that way mate? we are not feckin cretins or morons, we are Scaffolders that put the ££££££££££££ in their fat wallets. Give us some feckin credence. 'The right to be consulted'.:mad:

steve gregory
28th February 2011, 07:26 PM
Could somebody post the minutes from the asito meeting. It's time everybody knew what is going to be happening within our industry.

baboon
28th February 2011, 07:49 PM
we should have representative from our community go and put our feelings across.they are ******* idiots,they cant do a normal days work like us lot so they stick there beek in and make our life difficult by giving clueless ideas,and incompitent decisions.and they actually get paid for it pricks.

brandy
28th February 2011, 08:14 PM
Just another talk shop and the usual suspects get their over inflated tax free expenses to attend.

celticbhoy
28th February 2011, 08:57 PM
yes brandy they all attending out of our taxes bout time the goverment became more accountable in the way our hard pressed taxes are are divided.

scaffman1
28th February 2011, 09:24 PM
It would be good if we were all told about any changes within our industry,for as it stands the only ones who seem to get to know about any changes are the NASC members. the rest of us seem to have to pick the pieces from what is leaked out,I mean, how many members of this forum were told about double handrails when they came out as mandatory, or the new tie patterns etc. etc.
I think that it should be a mandatory duty for those who claim to have the best interest of our industry at heart to at the very least least tell each and every registered company (they are all available at companies house) about any change to working practices,if only for the very basic safety of all the scaffolders in the country.

brandy
28th February 2011, 09:56 PM
Arent the HSE a government body supposed to do that, or is the tail wagging the dog.

scaffman1
28th February 2011, 10:01 PM
You would think it was done by someone,but I doubt the HSE. It would make it harder for them to prosecute if we were all on a level playing field.

brandy
28th February 2011, 10:24 PM
Scaffman do the HSE not publish a code of practise, the reason I ask is in Ireland the equivelant body HSA ( Health and Safety Authority )do and is available to all.

T.ANIMAL
1st March 2011, 03:04 AM
It would be good if we were all told about any changes within our industry,for as it stands the only ones who seem to get to know about any changes are the NASC members. the rest of us seem to have to pick the pieces from what is leaked out,I mean, how many members of this forum were told about double handrails when they came out as mandatory, or the new tie patterns etc. etc.
I think that it should be a mandatory duty for those who claim to have the best interest of our industry at heart to at the very least least tell each and every registered company (they are all available at companies house) about any change to working practices,if only for the very basic safety of all the scaffolders in the country.

Fcuk me when did double handrails become mandatory:laugh::laugh::laugh:

andyf8686
1st March 2011, 03:38 AM
Jobs for the boy that's all that lot are behind closed door " like the masons " brethren LOL

steve gregory
1st March 2011, 09:05 AM
This is straying away from the fact that the minutes should be published.

ghatandy
1st March 2011, 01:00 PM
Could somebody post the minutes from the asito meeting. It's time everybody knew what is going to be happening within our industry.
Apologies as a Canuck and being new to this forum,and I read too much,Robert Bellah observed"what is citizenship",dumb as s@#$ question translated "are you in or are you out?" I would ask what does it take to be in as opposed to on the outs?" Of course most riggers comment that I know more things that don't make me money than anyone they know,think I'll walk my dogs

celticbhoy
1st March 2011, 05:26 PM
i would ask what is this post above me all about pmsl.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

yes indeed lets have the minutes please if they are available.

jakdan
1st March 2011, 06:59 PM
i would ask what is this post above me all about pmsl.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

yes indeed lets have the minutes please if they are available.

sounds like one of kendodds rants, ken translate please:bigsmile:

ragscaff
1st March 2011, 07:20 PM
Apologies as a Canuck and being new to this forum,and I read too much,Robert Bellah observed"what is citizenship",dumb as s@#$ question translated "are you in or are you out?" I would ask what does it take to be in as opposed to on the outs?" Of course most riggers comment that I know more things that don't make me money than anyone they know,think I'll walk my dogs

Think this has come to the wrong place!!! Might be better on Canadian Ex pat :unsure:

celticbhoy
1st March 2011, 07:35 PM
yip cross wires somewhere lads lol.

instructor
1st March 2011, 08:16 PM
Hi Steve as an instructor working for the biggest training provider for scaffolding in the south we donot even get to see the minutes unless a manager leaves them on the table. Its all about keeping the power within the closed shop and what i have seen of them you are not missing much.

ragscaff
1st March 2011, 09:16 PM
Might be relevant


Dear Mr Quinney

As discussed when we spoke last year there is no alternative to the Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme (CISRS) which is recognised by the construction industry as a whole.
The only way your members can obtain the necessary Construction Skills Certification Scheme card (CSCS) is to meet the requirements of the CISRS.
The transition process from the old card scheme has been in operation for some 10 years and had been extended for a further year to help your members confirm their competence in accordance with the requirements of the CISRS and thus be eligible for the necessary CSCS card.
I am fully aware that you have very experienced and competent members but in the current climate legislation dictates that we all have to prove and confirm our capabilities at regular intervals, no matter what sector of construction we work in, and the old card scheme is no longer available.
A two day Experienced Worker Practical Assessment (EWPA) is available to simplify the process should this be of interest.
It is difficult to ascertain whether you or any of your members have contacted the National Access and Scaffolding Confederation (NASC) or the Access & Scaffolding Industry Training Organisation (ASITO). As Peter George has stated NASC are looking to help where possible to facilitate getting your members carded. However, if you would let me have a list of your members with a note of their qualifications and experience I will take up the mater with NASC / ASITO to look at the options available.
Regards *******

********* FIoR

Training Advisor

Construction Skills

My Reply


Dear Mr ******,

Thank you for contacting me.

I have had a very busy last 6 months & do not recall the conversation with you.

I have on several occasions tried contacting you.

My first port of call was the NASC, they pointed me to CISRS, Mr Mosley who I have had a lot of contact with. We are currently putting a proposal together with the intent of being invited to attend the ASITO.

It seems to me in this current climate that if you have been scaffolding 10-20 years then you are put to the back of the queue but if you are 18 or just out of prison then you can get an advanced scaffolders card within 18 months!!!

I am sorry that the CITB or Cskills do not want to enter into a debate about the current situation. The issue of the old card scheme to new having a ten year period keeps coming up but the real issue has only been two to three years because no one asked for it before. Then you have employers faced with losing money or changing staff.

The ECITB issue has forced good men out of work & out of pocket, you also have a lot of skills within the Industry that do not want to start at trainee because they are skilled men. I will pass your details onto my members as I am not in a position to pass out their details without permission. We are a non-profit organization & would not have the time to gain that permission to our membership.

Any meetings we attend are at our own cost & we have & are willing to meet with any or all parties that are involved with this matter.

Is it possible to get any minutes form the last ASITO's meeting?

The fact that experienced workers have not been given the right information at the right time to gain like for like qualifications is a major issue for us & we will be perusing this till the end.

Regards Stewart Quinney
SCCR Chairman

cc ECITB Sub Committee, Main Committee, Web Pages.

steve gregory
2nd March 2011, 06:52 AM
Hi Steve as an instructor working for the biggest training provider for scaffolding in the south we donot even get to see the minutes unless a manager leaves them on the table. Its all about keeping the power within the closed shop and what i have seen of them you are not missing much.

We want to know what was discussed and how the issue's in training are going to be resolved. Everybody should know what is going to be happening to training. This is what all this about and consultation and getting the word out to the field. People will make there own minds up.

andyf8686
2nd March 2011, 06:58 AM
I totally agree we should see the meeting mins keep pushing this

Dennis
30th November 2011, 04:57 PM
Has anyone tried using the RPL route to gain a CISRS card?
I have tried but got nowhere as CISRS consistantly break the law by refusing to deal with this EU directive.

See copy of letter earlier this year.
My request was dismissed out of hand.

From: Dennis Greenll
Sent: 19 January 2011 14:06
To: enquiries@cisrs.org.uk
Subject: Recognition of Prior Learning
*
Sirs/Mesdames,

************* I am resident in the Republic of Ireland and I am writing to you both as a registered scaffolding trainer and as a safety officer for a number of scaffolding companies based here.

* A good number of scaffolders are reporting that CISRS are refusing to acknowledge any prior learning of scaffolders from the Republic of Ireland and are stating that they have to start again at the lowest level.

I also understand that you scrapped the "Route of Entry" programme a number of years ago.

Could you please outline, in writing, what CISRS are doing by way of the RPL legislation in relation for scaffolders from other member states and from Ireland in particular?

When can I expect you to have your system in place?

Now that you have established a precedent with the approval of an internation providor in the Phillipines, will you now be consider the possibility of letting a scaffolding trainer, suitably qualified, registered and monitored, run CISRS approved courses in the Republic of Ireland?

I also wish to note that as part of a bi-lateral agreement between FÁS and the CITB, it is understood that there is already recognition which is still displayed in the FÁS trainers manual and on the www.FÁS.ie website (see attached)


Here is an outline of the Directive. ********

The main mechanism by which professional qualifications are recognised is set down in EU Directive 2005/36 on the Recognition of Professional Qualifications. The purpose of the Directive, which came into force in October 2007, is to help make labour markets more flexible, further liberalise the provision of services, encourage more automatic recognition of qualifications, and simplify administrative procedures. Under the Directive, provisions are made whereby Professionals qualified in one (home) Member State can seek professional recognition of their qualifications in another (host) Member State for the purpose of practising their profession in that host Member State.


Here is the relevant extract

DIRECTIVE 2005/36/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 7 September 2005
on the recognition of professional qualifications

TITLE I
GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 1
Purpose
This Directive establishes rules according to which a Member
State which makes access to or pursuit of a regulated profession
in its territory contingent upon possession of specific
professional qualifications (referred to hereinafter as the host
Member State) shall recognise professional qualifications
obtained in one or more other Member States (referred to hereinafter
as the home Member State) and which allow the holder
of the said qualifications to pursue the same profession there,
for access to and pursuit of that profession.
Article 2
Scope
1. This Directive shall apply to all nationals of a Member
State wishing to pursue a regulated profession in a Member
State, including those belonging to the liberal professions,
other than that in which they obtained their professional qualifications,
on either a self-employed or employed basis.
2. Each Member State may permit Member State nationals
in possession of evidence of professional qualifications not
obtained in a Member State to pursue a regulated profession
within the meaning of Article 3(1)(a) on its territory in accordance
with its rules. In the case of professions covered by
Title III, Chapter III, this initial recognition shall respect the
minimum training conditions laid down in that Chapter.

1. For the purposes of this Directive, the following definitions
apply:
(a) ‘regulated profession’: a professional activity or group of
professional activities, access to which, the pursuit of
which, or one of the modes of pursuit of which is subject,
directly or indirectly, by virtue of legislative, regulatory or
administrative provisions to the possession of specific
professional qualifications; in particular, the use of a professional
title limited by legislative, regulatory or administrative
provisions to holders of a given professional qualification
shall constitute a mode of pursuit. Where the first
sentence of this definition does not apply, a profession
referred to in paragraph 2 shall be treated as a regulated
profession;
(b) ‘professional qualifications’: qualifications attested by
evidence of formal qualifications, an attestation of competence
referred to in Article 11, point (a) (i) and/or professional
experience;
(c) ‘evidence of formal qualifications’: diplomas, certificates and
other evidence issued by an authority in a Member State
designated pursuant to legislative, regulatory or administrative
provisions of that Member State and certifying
successful completion of professional training obtained
mainly in the Community. Where the first sentence of this
definition does not apply, evidence of formal qualifications
referred to in paragraph 3 shall be treated as evidence of
formal qualifications;
(d) ‘competent authority’: any authority or body empowered
by a Member State specifically to issue or receive training
diplomas and other documents or information and to
receive the applications, and take the decisions, referred to
in this Directive;
(e) ‘regulated education and training’: any training which is
specifically geared to the pursuit of a given profession and
which comprises a course or courses complemented, where
appropriate, by professional training, or probationary or
professional practice.
The structure and level of the professional training, probationary
or professional practice shall be determined by the
laws, regulations or administrative provisions of the
Member State concerned or monitored or approved by the
authority designated for that purpose;


Looking forward to an early and comprehensive response,
Yours faithfully,



Dennis Greenall

aom
1st December 2011, 11:20 PM
Good luck with that Dennis but I foresee a long fight ahead with that one. Maybe try sending Ragscaff a PM who might be able to bring you up to speed on what efforts they are putting in.

stu-h
26th April 2013, 08:22 PM
Is there any schemes that can help me pay for part1. Badly want to do it. Im in a job just now but company isn't putting boys through tickets? ?!

Dennis
26th June 2015, 03:55 PM
It's been a few years and I've been plugging away but to no avail.

NASC, and CISRS are adamant that they will recognise no other scaffolder training other than their own and insist on anyone entering the system must start all over again at the bottom.

What this confirms is that a NASC training and a CISRS card are NOT legal requirements to erect and dismantle scaffolding in GB!
Instead, the requirement reverts to a "competent person" as decided by the "employer" as part of their legal duties and responsibilities.

Where a specific qualification is a legal requirement, as in Ireland under the Construction Regulations 2013, Schedule 5, that qualification MUST be recognised by any other member state under the RPL Directive (see my previous post).
The fact that NASC refuse to consider any kind of recognition of prior learning means that their courses, whilst very good, are not a legal requirement.

Double-Standards
27th June 2015, 08:34 AM
True Dennis, but try getting on site without a CISRS card its near on impossible.

stonedrose1
12th July 2015, 07:15 PM
It's been a few years and I've been plugging away but to no avail.

NASC, and CISRS are adamant that they will recognise no other scaffolder training other than their own and insist on anyone entering the system must start all over again at the bottom.

What this confirms is that a NASC training and a CISRS card are NOT legal requirements to erect and dismantle scaffolding in GB!
Instead, the requirement reverts to a "competent person" as decided by the "employer" as part of their legal duties and responsibilities.

Where a specific qualification is a legal requirement, as in Ireland under the Construction Regulations 2013, Schedule 5, that qualification MUST be recognised by any other member state under the RPL Directive (see my previous post).
The fact that NASC refuse to consider any kind of recognition of prior learning means that their courses, whilst very good, are not a legal requirement.

It's legalised racketeering, is what it is.

skyhook
18th July 2015, 07:32 PM
The scaffolding association is an up and coming alternative to NASC, you can check them out here;
Scaffolding Association (http://www.scaffolding-association.org) https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Scaffolding-Association/293719634020466