Reading design drawings.

daz

daz

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
498
Reaction score
0
Location
Live ~Spain
Just wondering how many fellas are completly comfortable working to design drawings,an ideal example happened to me last week when i showed a advanced scaff a job,and went through the drawing with him before he started the work.All seemed well when i left him,saw him in yard that night asked if everything was ok,he assured me it was,left it at that,2 days later went to check the work he was carrying out,to find hardly anything erected,he confessed he hadnt a clue about the drawing and couldnt follow it,poor 5od said he hadnt slept for 2 nights because of worry,is this down to not enough trainging on drawings through the course,or just a daft knob being to proud to ask for help.:D
 
daz i've come across this before, there are a lot of lads out there that struggle with dsyexlia .
 
The HSE think that drawings are covered in the courses. All I had to do was work with two other people & errect to a drawing in a fashion.

No training was given on the course. I have used drawings a lot over the years & did not find it a problem. But if you have never come across it how do they expect you to know!!

Same old thing the training is not up to date & does not cover enough praticle experiance. The NVQ section should have a section on Drawings:rolleyes:

Ragscaff
 
ragscaff said:
The HSE think that drawings are covered in the courses. All I had to do was work with two other people & errect to a drawing in a fashion.

No training was given on the course. I have used drawings a lot over the years & did not find it a problem. But if you have never come across it how do they expect you to know!!

Same old thing the training is not up to date & does not cover enough praticle experiance. The NVQ section should have a section on Drawings:rolleyes:

Ragscaff
Click to expand...

Well i've not been here that long but that is a pretty good statement ragscaff and rest assured i'll be putting that across to our management and will ask why this isn't in the advanced training course
 
One of our lads failed his cscs health and safety touch screen test 7 times before he finaly told me he couldn't read or write, we told the test centre and they gave him the audio test and he got a pass straight away.It seems that in this day and age far from becoming rarer , reading and writing or a lack of them are becoming more common.
 
Drawings should be part of the courses. However, scaffs are scaffs and engineers are engineers :0). I would give the chargehand a copy of the design drawing along with my own interpetation in scaffolding layman's terms (if I thought he needed it). I've also come across an engineer's support drawings where it has been physically impossible for the number of fittings required to fit the space. That's down to this particular engineer never working on a site. We need a bit of training both ways I think.
 
The problem is that the HSE interpritation of training means that if you hold a part 2 card you are able to complete the basic scaffold & are trained to read a drawing to erect scaffold to a part 2 standard. The same goes for advanced.

You are right a scaffolder is a scaffolder & an engineer is an engineer.

Anything other than 2 + 4 boards or 1 + 5 boards has to have a drawing now.

A trained scaffolder can then erect to this drawing. But how can you if you are not trained!!!!

:wacko::confused:

Ragscaff
 
drawings are complicated and to be fair i struggle meself at times ha ha
 
i carry out inspections every week and find some design drawings to be of vewry poor standard with very little detail
 
yeh we have used several design companies over the years , we used to use an old boy who did all by hand but you couldnt read his writing , We use a guy Called John Houlihan to do all our audits , we have in house capabilities as well but external audits pick up all the real issues
 
Does this ring a bell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone once thought that harnesses were a good idea:push:

Now they know it is nearly impossible to rescue someone safely with in 10 minutes. I know lets change it now. Pity they did'nt think of that first.

Now lets do everything to drawing.

Pity they have'nt looked into that either. Most drawings are poor, more than likley more than 60% of ticketed scaffolders would not be able to work to them due to no training!! (No offence intended)

Great out of the frying pan again to get a burnt arse:nuts::eek:

Ragscaff
 
ragscaff said:
Does this ring a bell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone once thought that harnesses were a good idea:push:

Now they know it is nearly impossible to rescue someone safely with in 10 minutes. I know lets change it now. Pity they did'nt think of that first.

Now lets do everything to drawing.

Pity they have'nt looked into that either. Most drawings are poor, more than likley more than 60% of ticketed scaffolders would not be able to work to them due to no training!! (No offence intended)

Great out of the frying pan again to get a burnt arse:nuts::eek:

Ragscaff
Click to expand...

.
I've said this before the NASC knew that the HSE were not happy withtraversing and tunneling when SG4:05 came out. All the methods in SG4:10 to be released in November were available in 2005.So were now changing the rules again ( not happy) so I understand everyone elses opinion.
 
Our in house engineers at dsl are pretty poor to be honest. I have had drawings where ladder beams go through ladder beams!
Working in a refinery I think 60 per cent of the drawings we have had have not worked out.
There is always some obstacle or problem, but usually we use our noggin and they always pass the end result.
As you say it is surprising how many cant read drawings correctly but sometimes it is just as much the engineers fault than ours.
 
Done a job for cardys at this end , on the 6th lift ladder beams thrown out on front and rear to go over side roof , 40ft span from unit beams and the designer showed the unit beams hanging under the ladder beams on doubles , queried it with cardys who told me to contact the designer to justify why it couldnt be done , apart from that incident we only really use one designer now (the rutts) who is an ex scaffolder so at least he knows the crack and these working drawings can be worked too.
 
scaffy said:
Done a job for cardys at this end , on the 6th lift ladder beams thrown out on front and rear to go over side roof , 40ft span from unit beams and the designer showed the unit beams hanging under the ladder beams on doubles , queried it with cardys who told me to contact the designer to justify why it couldnt be done , apart from that incident we only really use one designer now (the rutts) who is an ex scaffolder so at least he knows the crack and these working drawings can be worked too.
Click to expand...

.
Only queeried a designer once. Slung scaffold from a footbridge 3m span between the beams scaffold was hung from wtf 2.7m for light duty use. Scaffold built to design input in the 7 day inspection
 
think only a designer with scaffold experience produces workable designs ,
 
Once upon a time being an advanced scaffolder meant something.

If I had a drawing that did not quite work then I could alter it & sign / date it.

Now it has to go back to the design company. Do they pay subscriptions to the NASC per drawing. ( No offence intended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

As I have said before let me do my job, the only help I need is with loadings!

Ragscaff
 
Yeh i remember them days too , designers are all busy tho so TG20 must be a good earner , maybe theres royalties to pay to NASC ha ha
 
scaffy said:
think only a designer with scaffold experience produces workable designs ,
Click to expand...

In the real world scaffy, even an experienced scaffolder will find it hard to querry a university student and all his knoledge
 
You know the score , i know plenty of advanced scaffolders that cant read drawings , occasionally the erected structure resembles the drawing as well
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom