New cap 609----2010-----instuctors (1 Viewer)

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steve gregory

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OK the new cap 609 is out here is a few things for new and upcoming instuctors to think about......
Issue: One 01.04.10 Page 28
CISRS
7. Instructional Staff
7.1. Instructor Requirements
The CISRS requires training to be carried out only by competent and qualified instructors who are registered on the CISRS Instructor database. All applicant Instructors must meet the following criteria:
 Have been employed, for a minimum of five years, as a chargehand, foreman or supervisor in the scaffolding industry.
 Hold a recognised training award or instructional qualification deemed suitable by the Management Committee. A list of accepted qualifications can be found in appendix I.
 Have understudied scaffolding instructional staff at an Approved Centre for the duration of each type of Record Scheme course they intend to be registered. Part1 courses should be understudied at an approved Centre other than the one at which a new instructor will be registered. Further understudying can be carried out at their own Centre if they already employ a registered instructor to the level desired. The Management Committee reserves the right to monitor any Registered Instructor or Applicant as part of the Audit Process.
 Hold a CISRS Advanced Scaffolder Card for more than 5 years.
 Instructors wishing to deliver System Scaffold training must be able to demonstrate evidence of product training in the specific CISRS Recognised Product they are seeking to be registered. This training must be within five years of the application.
 Be a qualified (or be working towards qualification) as an S/NVQ Assessor (D32/33 or A1/A2). An instructor will not be considered fully qualified by CISRS until they have achieved the relevant VQ assessor units.
 In addition to the requirements for the centre to provide First Aid cover (as per section 6.3.5 above) every Instructor must be a trained First Aid ‘Appointed Person’.
 Any Instructor who is to be working with vulnerable groups e.g. young persons under the age of 18, must be Criminal Record Bureau (CRB) checked, or equivalent.
The Instructor Application Form can be found in Appendix J.
Each Approved Centre must directly employ at least one Instructor (PAYE). All CISRS Instructors must be registered to the Approved Centre where the training is undertaken (whether directly employed, freelance, seconded from another centre, agency or otherwise).
7.2. Instructor Qualification
Following the registration of a new Instructor who meets the criteria above (7.1), they will only be permitted to run Part 1 courses. They must undertake a minimum of 4 Part 1 courses prior to being eligible to shadow a Part 2 course.
This process applies to each stage in an instructors development (E.g. Part 1, 2, Advanced, system scaffolds etc.). Therefore must also undertake a minimum of 4 Part 2 courses prior to becoming eligible to shadow a CISRS Advanced course.
Progression of an instructor is at the discretion of the Approved Centre. If he/she is not ready to move on after 4 courses then he should continue to run Part 1 courses only until the centre feels he is experienced enough to proceed.
Approved Centres must be able to demonstrate a formal system for monitoring, supervising and appraising the performance of new instructors before allowing them to progress. CISRS may request written evidence of such appraisals.
7.2.1 VQ Assessor
Following initial registration as an instructor, CISRS requires the individual to achieve their VQ assessor qualification (A1/2 or D32/33) within 18 months. While working towards their Assessor qualification they are permitted to deliver Part 2 courses, however the Assessor qualification must be in place before progressing to Advanced Instructor status.
7.3. Register of Instructors
CISRS maintains a Register of Instructors who are approved to deliver specific CISRS training courses at specific Approved Centres.
Each instructor must be register to an Approved Centre and only Instructors who are registered for a specific course may deliver a CISRS course.
The Application to Register an Instructor can only be made by an Approved Centre. Applications cannot be made by an individual instructor. Registrations are not transferable from centre to centre, each Approved Centre must register their own Instructors.
CISRS will provide a schedule of all instructors registered to an Approved Centre showing:
 CISRS Instructor Number
 Full Name of the Instructor
 Home Address
 Nature of employment (PAYE, Full/Part-time, Freelance, Agency etc.)
 Date of Birth
 National Insurance Number
 Photograph
 List of CISRS Courses Registered to deliver
 List of Approved Centres they are registered
CISRS will issue a new schedule annually to each centre and following any amendments to the Register of Instructors for the individual Centre. It is the responsibility of the Approved Centre to notify CISRS if an Instructor is no longer practicing at their Centre or changes to their details i.e. change of address.
7.4. Continuous Professional Development
It is the responsibility of each Instructor and the Approved Centre(s) they are registered, to ensure that they maintain their knowledge of industry practice (e.g. new legislation, guidance, manufacturers’ instructions in line with any changes or updates made by the manufacturer for the CISRS Recognised Products for which they are registered).
The CISRS reserves the right to request CISRS Instructors to attend prescribed CPD events in order to maintain their registration. Such CPD events may include CISRS seminars or conferences, manufacturers’ product refresher training, for example.
In addition, Centre’s must comply with the various requirements for instructor CPD by accreditation bodies to maintain qualifications e.g. Institute for Learning, A1 etc.
7.5. Instructor to Trainee Ratio
The maximum permitted number of Trainees per Instructor is nine. However, the Management Committee may limit the maximum number of delegates to less than nine depending upon the physical capacity of the centre.
7.6. Revocation of Instructors
The Management Committee reserves the right, where an Instructor fails to meet the standards of instruction, professional care, does not comply with the requirements of the scheme or their conduct brings the scheme into disrepute, to remove any Instructor from the Register. Approved Centres may appeal against the decision to remove an Instructor from the Register, using the appeals process detailed in section 17.
7.7. Course Support Staff
Centres using two or more Instructors approved to undertake CISRS training must provide a General Worker to maintain course equipment, prepare work areas and maintain a supply of materials for each training project. Support staff may be employed on a full or part-time basis, as necessary.
Centres approved to undertake Construction Industry Scaffolders Record Scheme training, that employ only one instructor must also satisfy the CISRS Manager/Management Committee that they have in place satisfactory arrangements for maintaining course equipment and maintaining a supply of materials for course.


LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK..
1st thing you can have a card for:
scaffold labourer, basic scaffolder, advanced scaffolder, supervisor, inspector but now NO CARDS FOR INSTRUCTORS....
i have loads more to go through .....
2nd thing ......
you may have 30 yrs experence and have only just got your advanced cards because of firms being tight with there training so in principle those 30 yrs mean NOTHING......
post your views on this 1...
 
Hiya Steve, I agree, unfortunately this is typical of how instructors and scaffolders in general are treated. Strange how everyone else is issued a card, scaffolders etc, but instructors cards removed. Would like to hear their reasons.
Think very precarious situation now where intructors may only be registered by a approved training centre. (If I dont like like you I will not register you and therefore you are no longer a instructor) Maybe in the future scaffolders may only be registered by approved scaffolding companies.
How can these people make decisions affecting the livelihood of others without consultation or discussion and not even have the courtesy to inform them of their new criteria.
It is my opinion that CISRS is being used and abused by the administration to suit their own purpose rather than the intended one.
Also like to hear reasons for promoting STEP in training as, along with others, I feel this appears to introduce another hazard to working at height whilst not reducing any of the ones already present. Of course every scaffolder in the country will need training in the use too.
 
What a dam cheek---Autoctic Maddness---another Case of the tail wagging the Dog---For God's sake how long are the many going to be dictated to by the few---ragscaff managed to get a meeting with the HSE in Leeds---why cant the NASC Training Manager sit down and talk to the Instructors Reps---for without the Instructors their would be no Trained and Ticketed Scaffs.

Come on NASC---a wee bit of respect would not go a miss here eh---Joint Consultation---dont bite the hand that feed you...
 
they dont want instuctors teaching cisrs abroad...

NASC are ltd company and in business to make a profit. they are composed of staff from larger scaffold companies and therefore prefer to have criteria that promotes these companies. Citb are registered charity and promote and develop training. BIG DIFFERENCE. CISRS and NASC training manager is the same bloke .... WE VOTE FOR CHANGE......... WE VOTE FOR SCAFFOLDERS TO RUN OUR SYSTEM AND TRAINING....THE SCAFFOLDER MATTER IN MY EYES.... THEY ARE THE 1'S WHO ARE DOING THE JOB.....

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

TIME TO PUT UP A FIGHT AND F*** NASC OFF ALL TOGETHER>>>> excuse the language...

TIME TO REBEL FOR THE SCAFFOLDERS CONFEDERATION.........


DONT FORGET YOUR CARD MONEY PAYS THERE WAGES AND EXPENSES....

I propose 4 candidates for the board already.....

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

STEP UP DEVICE ----well say no more doesn't even comply to the minimum working platform width so at this stage i dont want to go there.....
 
"It is my opinion that CISRS is being used and abused by the administration to suit their own purpose rather than the intended one."

Ditto that sentiment...

Like I said in another post NASC is just a big money making machine now...
Ive said various things regarding training to the top bods of the NASC and end up feeling like walking away and beating my head against a brick wall....

I dont feel yet another system operating alongside/opposing NASC will work, we just need to kick them into the real world, hopefully with the steps made by ragscaff and everyone else involved in the HSE meeting the long road to this has started.....
Lets hope so eh?
 
Unfortunately, the growth industry in this country (UK) now is Beaurocracy..............:mad:

I am proud to have been associated with the Scaffolding Industry since 1964.....................I've had some great mates and colleagues during that time.........many of whom are sadly gone now..........and we all considered ourselves as MEN.

We faced confrontation and controversey without backing down............sometimes we fought each other too :eek: .........but we always had respect for ourselves and each other.

We did a difficult job that not everyone was capable of doing.........and we were PROUD to do it knowing that we could provide a safe Access to other trades and contractors... and.... We have a greater experience and knowledge of Safety than any Construction Worker on any site.

So what has happened?..........while we were looking the other way (or more likely out grafting) the LEECHES that can't do what we do came in through the back door and brought Legislation and Beaurocracy to our Industry............HSE ...... NASC ......unecessary CRAP!.......well the modern version is.:suspicious:

When I started in this game, you didn't need a Licence to Work..........you got a job and went out and did it..........that was it......now you need CISRS, CCNSG, part 1, part 2, NVQ3...........the list goes on...........but ultimately the young blokes coming into the game these days may need to spend £££££££1000's just to get to a level whereby they are allowed to work!.......That is clearly wrong!.........A whole Industry of PARASITES has attached itself to the great Scaffolding Industry and is sucking us dry :mad:

Before long you will need to fill in a Risk Assessment before you tie your boots..........and they are already telling us which ones are not suitable (Rigger Boots....are they Insane?)......no need to answer.

The blokes in this game are the Salt of the Earth and we should always stick together.........we should kick the beaurocrats into touch.......and remember: WITHOUT SCAFFOLDERS THERE IS BASICALLY NO CONSTRUCTION WORK AT ALL.................I'm just an angry OLD SCHOOL SCAFFOLDER...................
 
Need to make changes but it will take time!!

The HSE avenue is well & truly open, the comments I made to them on training is being progressed & I will keep you all informed. The NASC is a different kettle of fish. How can the industry ask you to be a member of a industry representative yet you are not allowed to become a member!!

Monopolies’ commission springs to mind, I run a company supplying labour only scaffolders & I am not allowed to join the NASC. Yet a lot of the main building contractors insist you are a member!!

How many other firms have been refused membership & in what areas.:wacko:

Ragscaff
 
Ragscaff,

I never knew you could not join nasc as a labour only concern, can't understand that one as there is all sorts of different companies now members like suppliers and designers all be it information members what ever that means. Obviously you have already looked in to this but it's certainly the first I have heard of it.
 
why do they let in suppliers and not the guys that put the feckin stuff up, that doesn't make any sense.
 
CISRS and NASC have the same address so every scaffolder who owns a card should also be a member of NASC..... oppps forgot ... NASC JUST WANTS GREED..... its either there rules or **** off its a joke....
same for instructors they wont issue instructors cards because NASC want to promote themselves ... Quote " They do not want instructors going over sea's teaching to the CISRS scheme." what a load of bull .. a independent is a independent , a tower is a tower , birdcage is still a birdcage, hanger will always be a hanger and so on.. so now you can only instruct if you are on NASC database. So an over sea's course will have to go through NASC.. does monopolies spring to mind..... im sure they took microsoft to court for the same reason a few years ago....mmmmmm......
 
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ragscaff what is there reasons for not allowing you membership, i would expect a good legal eagle would get their feathers ruffled for you as the fact you are not allowed membership while they rally support for nasc only sites is surely illegal, the problem with nasc is that they not interested in whats best for the scaffold industry just whats best for nasc .

a real industry body would help members and non members as much as possible in order to enhance that industries reputation as much as possible
 
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