Sg ? Tg ?

SG & TG

Quotes the H&S guy, however, do they know what they mean?

SG 4:05 Safety Guidance, it is not law, it is best practice.

TG20:08 Technical Guidance, its not law, its best practice

There are plenty of laws, Regs and acts, however, NASC are just ACOP.
Approved code of practice.

British Standards are not Law---However, it is a Statutory Requirment to Inspect? Monitor that the B.S. is in complyance :nuts:

It is not a Statutory requierment to hold a CITB Scaffolders Card---However, it is a Statutory requirement for the Scaffold Erector to be Compenent and Capable to Erect the Scaffold to Statutory requirements. :nuts:

It is a Statutory requirement to subject a Scaffold to a " More Rigerouse Inspection " is this a phisycal as well as visual Inspection ?---to many grey areas---Reasonably Practicable what is the definition ???

Garry...

Paddy

Although the NASC guidance notes are not law, you would be hard pushed to defend yourself with the HSE from a legal point of view if you chose to work outside the guidance.

Garry

It is a Statutory requirement to subject a Scaffold to a " More Rigerouse Inspection " explain further please mate

Collo

The WAH Regs state: " a more rigerouse " Inspection be carried out on Scaffolding Structures.

However, what is meant as a more rigerouse, this implyes a physical Inspection as well as a Visual !...

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Collo

Although B.S. 1139 Metal Scaffolds is not Law---how would a Judge rule if it was found that a collaps was due to non-complyance of B.S. Toruqe Values ?

Garry

I suppose it's back to reasonably practicable again. I would not be practicable for the scaffold inspector to go round with a torque wrench and check every single fitting, but say a random sample of the load bearing safety critical elements should suffice.

Collo

Indeed it would not be Reasonably Practicable to test every Component Part---however, I have conducted Safety Surveys as part of a Loss Prevention Strategy for a Leading Offshore TurnKey Facilitator---the results revealed that approx 33% of all Components Surveyd were out of B.S. Complinace.

This revelation raised a few eye brows within the Safety Engineering Department...

Garry

I have read a report that states that, an average scaffolder using a standard length spanner should consistantly achieve a torque value of 40 Newton metres plus. This gives a slip value on the fitting of 26.3kN, well in excess of the safe working load of 6.3kN. Even only reaching a torque value of only 20 Newton metres achieves a slip value of 8.5kN, although a bit close for comfort this is still above 6.3kN.

[The above figures are based on old fittings with paint on]

How does this compare with your research?

Collo

I am not in dispute with the Data in your last Post---the Loss Prevention Strategy was in part to identify Human Error in over and under Torqueing of Component Parts and the effects thereof---

over, the affects on the Gate, Bolt, Washer, i.e. deviations and stress fractures, shear stress on Bolt and compression on washer, which dilutes the optimum performance of the Compoment.

under, impingment on the Integrity, Reliability and Sability of the Structure by dilution of the frictional Stress.

Garry...

As ever recommendations cause grey areas,its all about ar5e covering and the ball is firmly in the court of the powers that be,with it being so easy for all and saundry to obtain scaffold inspection certs,different inspectors will always find different so called problems,were back to insufficiant training again boys..

How many guys out there have seen the SG & TG`s not many. most of these are passed on by word of mouth which is very wrong. The larger companys want you to work by these guide lines but dont show them to every one coz they know the hassle it would coz.

This info is from the NASC

TECHNICAL GUIDANCE
For easy identification all NASC Technical Publications are coloured green in the header, and are prefixed with TG (Technical Guidance).


Please note that all orders for NASC guidance/publications must be recieved via the order form. To order your NASC publications please make a note of the code and complete the order form here.
Publications Order Form


Title

Code

Full Members Price

Non-Members Price


Temporary Edge Protection for Sloping and Flat Roofs TG1 NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED
Erection, Use and Dismantling of Temporary Rubbish Chutes on Scaffolding TG3:03 FREE £5.00
Anchorage Systems TG4:04 FREE £8.00
Scaffold Board Specification (Discontinued: replaced by BS2482:09) TG5 DIS-CONTINUED DIS-CONTINUED
Timber Batten Specification 50mm and 63mm Thickness TG6 NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED
Scaffold Board Nail Plates TG7:07 FREE £4.00
Fire Damage TG8:10 FREE £4.00
Guide to the Design and Construction of Temporary Roofs and Buildings TG9 NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED NOT AVAILABLE BEING UPDATED
Fire Retardant Treatments for Timber Scaffold Boards and Battens TG10:06 FREE £4.00
Stress Corrosion Cracking in HT Steels and Alloys TG11:10 FREE £4.00
Tying Down of Scaffold Boards TG12:03 FREE £4.00
Non-Standard Boarded Platforms TG13:03 FREE £5.00
Supplementary Couplers and Check Couplers TG14:03 FREE £4.00
Site Hoardings and Signboards TG15:03 FREE £5.00
Anchoring to the Ground TG16:06 FREE £5.00
Identification of EN74 Scaffold Fittings TG17:10 FREE £4.00
Guide to Good Practice for Scaffolding with Tubes and Fittings TG20:08 £67.50 £6 (P P) = £73.50 £135 £6 (P P) = £141
TG20:08 Toolbox Talk Pocket Guide TG20:08 Pocket Guide £1.25 £2.50

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Also from NASC

HEALTH AND SAFETY PUBLICATIONS
For easy identification all NASC Health and Safety Publications are coloured red in the header, and are prefixed with SG (Safety Guidance).


Please note that all orders for NASC guidance/publications must be recieved via the order form. To order your NASC publications please make a note of the code and complete the order form here.
Publications Order Form





Title Code
NASC Members Price
NON-MEMBERS PRICE
Control of Substance Hazardous to Health in Scaffolding (COSHH) SG1:08 £4.00 £8.00
Asbestos Licences and Ancillary work Involving the Scaffolding Contractor SG2:08 £3.00 £6.00
Earthing of Scaffolding Structures SG3:08 £2.00 £4.00
SG4:05 Appendix A Interim Guidance on Collective Protection Systems in Scaffolding SG4:05 Appendix A FREE FREE
SG4:05 Training DVD SG4:05 DVD £57.58inc VAT £116.33 inc VAT
SG4:You User Guide to SG4:05 SG4:YOU £2.50 £2 for orders of 100 and over
£5.00
SG4:05 Preventing Falls in Scaffolding and Falsework SG4:05 £12.50 £25.00
Overhead Power Lines SG5:02 £2.00 £4.00
Manual Handling in the Scaffolding Industry SG6:02 £6.00 £12.00
Guide to Risk Assessment SG7:09 £3.00 £6.00
Reporting of Accidents Procedure SG8:08 £2.50 £5.00
Use, Inspection and Maintenance of Lifting Equipment and Accessories in the Scaffolding Industry SG9:08 £3.00 £6.00
Requirements for the Use of Brickguards SG10:08 £2.00 £4.00
Noise SG11:08 £3.00 £6.00
Health Surveillance in Scaffolding SG13:02 £2.50 £5.00
Safety Nets SG14:10 £4.00 £8.00
Drugs and Alcohol at Work SG15:09 £3.00 £6.00
Management of Fall Protection Equipment SG16:08 £2.50 £5.00
Fall Arrest Equipment and You SG17:08 £2.00 £4.00
Welfare Facilities for the Scaffolding Contractor SG18:08 £2.00 £4.00
A Guide to Formulating a Rescue Plan SG19:10 £4.00 £8.00
Consultation with the Workforce SG20:09 £2.00 £4.00
Entry into Confined Spaces SG21:03 £2.50 £5.00
Induction Training SG22:10 £2.50 £5.00
Safe System of Work for Birdcage Scaffolds SG23:03 £2.50 £5.00
A Guide for Scaffold Plans (Method Statements) SG24:06 £2.00 £4.00
Ladder Access Points on Scaffolds SG25:06 £4.00 £8.00
Scaffolding & Hoists SG26:05 £7.50 £15.00
Temporary edge protection on open steelwork SG27:09 £3.00 £6.00
Safe Systems of Work for Scaffolding Associated with Timber Frame Building Construction SG28:09 £4.00 £8.00
Internal Edge Protection on Scaffold Platforms SG29:08 £2.00 £4.00
Working from Vehicles SG30:09 £3.00 £6.00
Management of Slips, Trips and Falls SG31:09 £3.00 £6.00

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

Collo said:

Paddy

Although the NASC guidance notes are not law, you would be hard pushed to defend yourself with the HSE from a legal point of view if you chose to work outside the guidance.

Collo

I totally agree with you mate, however, what my point is, NASC are not the to be and end all of all SSOW/Method statements, there are other avenues open to us, as Ragscaff, has proved.

The addition of Scaffolders, involved within the formulation and promogulation of any further TG & SG addendums to existing criteria, should be incorporated into the current system regarding 'The right to be consulted', and Consultation rights.

In order for us all to sing from the same hymn sheet, a Representative of NASC would be a great advantage to the 'Scaffolders Forum', not to be used as a Whipping post, but as a intermediary assett to the NASC.

I hope i make myself clear, i am not slagging off the NASC as such, however, maybe they have forgotten about Tom,D1ck and Harriet that they are supposed to represent.

Regards
Paddy

Click to expand...

daz

Inspectors can only work within the peramiters of the Clients Remit and Standards set within their Company Safety Policies and Arrangements---Appart from the bog Standard Check List---in some of the sensitive and High Risk Industries, Inspectors are called upon to conduct a more indepth Survey in an attempt to mitigate against every occurance---Safety Engineers are payed a handom salary to identify Fault Finding Sienarios, then hand the Inspector the remit to come up with proactive Loss Prevention Strategies.

Safety Engineers do not always like what is contained within the Report---Pandora's Box...

---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Gaz

Totaly Agree---how many are tought the content of TG Documents---indeed how many of the Blue Chip Service Companies are working to the TG Documents---how many actual Working Drawings has any one seen during the time of TG 's inorgination...

For TG: to operate at it's optimum, given that hte majority of Offshore Structures are not off the shelf Scaffolds, the Guys in the Drawing Office must be Working Flat out

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Paddy M8

Firstly, welcome back from your vacation, refreshed and ready to go, streaght in there M8

I can only echo your sentiments regarding a rep form NASC geting involved with the Forum---SO, if there's any NASC Official (s) out there viewing the Site---and I know there are a few, dont be shy pull up a chair and lets get the Kettle on eh...

Paddy NASC is the next target meeting.

When I have finished the reports a summing up will be posted on the forum with an agenda to go to them with.

I MEAN BUSINESS:nuts:

Ragscaff