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grampsgavin
24th January 2012, 06:46 PM
Was phoned today by surveyor from major housebuilding company. He told me my company came highly recommended and would I like to tender for the their next contracts. I asked who he was using at the moment and why was he changing scaffold supplier. He informed me that his present scaffold crew were unreliable and the standard of work poor.After general chit chat he asked if I was NASC registered.I told him no and the reasons why. He then told me that to work for this major house builder you had to be NASC.I asked why? He replied because it gives a guaranteed standard of scaffold.I referred him to his reason for contacting me in the first place ( present scaffold co rubbish). Why do these companies think the NASC are any good.

allan666
24th January 2012, 06:51 PM
says it all

ragscaff
24th January 2012, 06:57 PM
Was phoned today by surveyor from major housebuilding company. He told me my company came highly recommended and would I like to tender for the their next contracts. I asked who he was using at the moment and why was he changing scaffold supplier. He informed me that his present scaffold crew were unreliable and the standard of work poor.After general chit chat he asked if I was NASC registered.I told him no and the reasons why. He then told me that to work for this major house builder you had to be NASC.I asked why? He replied because it gives a guaranteed standard of scaffold.I referred him to his reason for contacting me in the first place ( present scaffold co rubbish). Why do these companies think the NASC are any good.

Send me details if you want to.

sccr@sky.com.

This is a situation we are looking into. Most firms state that they would prefer to use as opposed to have to use. Their is a legal issue here.

I'm all for giving piece of mind by using a company thats part of its Industry body. That is part of the reason the SCCR was formed, to support those companies who are closed out of the NASC but can offer a reliable,safe & quality service following current legislation.

Stewart Quinney
SCCR Chairman

Flinty
24th January 2012, 07:38 PM
There does seem to be a common misconception that NASC are government backed and anyone who's not NASC is a cowboy....

Dass
24th January 2012, 08:00 PM
About two years ago, we were asked to price some work for Kiers on a local council contract. We were told our prices were ok but we never heard anything for a few weeks. I rang the QS to be told that we wouldn't be allowed to work for Kiers as we weren't NASC members. When I reminded him that at least two other scaffold companies he was using weren't NASC members, he told me that they had been using the companies before Kiers had brought that rule in so the rule didn't apply.

SWIFTY
24th January 2012, 08:02 PM
Do you know when they brought that rule in Dass?

bigfish
24th January 2012, 08:03 PM
Send me details if you want to.

sccr@sky.com.

This is a situation we are looking into. Most firms state that they would prefer to use as opposed to have to use. Their is a legal issue here.

I'm all for giving piece of mind by using a company thats part of its Industry body. That is part of the reason the SCCR was formed, to support those companies who are closed out of the NASC but can offer a reliable,safe & quality service following current legislation.

Stewart Quinney
SCCR Chairman

You got pm ragscaff

Dass
24th January 2012, 08:04 PM
Couldn't say for sure Swifty but it was definitely about 2 years ago when that happened to us

1969scaff
24th January 2012, 08:24 PM
Re NASC ,this shower are a member,worst reputation in Liverpool yet still in the NASC God knows how,brown envelopes?Heard off one of the lads we met in town whilst on the **** that Atlantic had done them out of a weeks holiday pay!! They got five days and told that that was all they could expect,tough if they didn't like it.Robbing pricks,was hoping to run into one of the gobshites that run? Atlantic but no such luck!!Got to be the worst firm in Liverpool.Cash in hand labour and treat the cards in lads like ****.As an update to this sorry tale it's interesting to note that the firm ATLANTIC SITE SERVICES NW LTD is a member of the NASC.Don't know how they got in it,from what I have heard they break every rule the NASC has.They don't provide any training unless the lads pay ,PPE is ,get your own,they use cash in hand labour,they want blowing out of the water!

timthumb
24th January 2012, 08:35 PM
i work for a non nasc company who just won a large kier contract ....all about price i believe

bigfish
24th January 2012, 10:12 PM
i work for a non nasc company who just won a large kier contract ....all about price i believe

Maybe their realising that they can get the same job for half the money,if i was a director of one of the big construction firms who say only nasc appointed company's can work for us,then i would still want a good deal,even though it's a nasc company:notrust:

ragscaff
24th January 2012, 10:27 PM
Kier quote that they prefer to have NASC. Due to the fact of a legal matter.

Midas quote have to be or working too.

We have just done a job in Exeter for Kiers. week to put it up two weeks to get the paperwork right first though!!!

We only got the job due to the fact the steel erectors used us all the time & Kiers did not put two & two together until it was too late. They asked several times if we were NASC, we said know but we are SCCR. :laugh:

Ragscaff

XxIANxX
25th January 2012, 05:32 AM
Why do these companies think the NASC are any good.

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These companies are being brainwashed, Steve and me were at a seminar with a big housing company a few months back. A training centre MD from the Notts area was giving a talk on NASC this NASC that. Biggest load of sh1te I've heard, especially after seeing the pictures of a few local nasc companies on here.

tim60
25th January 2012, 07:12 AM
kings cross station is a kiers job and the scaffold firm in there now have been in there since 2010 and are NOT in the NASC

scaffoldingsafetyservices
25th January 2012, 07:31 AM
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These companies are being brainwashed, Steve and me were at a seminar with a big housing company a few months back. A training centre MD from the Notts area was giving a talk on NASC this NASC that. Biggest load of sh1te I've heard, especially after seeing the pictures of a few local nasc companies on here.

The head safety man from that major housing builder sits on the working well together group committee. I started talking SG various numbers and the bloke didnt have a clue. I said well youve signed your company up to this. They have since relented as long as the companies are CHAS as a mimimum requirment and are audited (xxianxx department - excellent rates apply) every year.

AS for that MD he can only give presentations on the materials suppied to him. ITS JUST A SHAME THAT MAJOR LIE TACTICS ARE USE TO SELL. Maybe everytime we corrected the gentleman he realised what a load of rubbish his presentation actually was. :D

With these major companies who are saying they only use them and then do not should be named, including which site. so the smaller companies have a fighting chance at getting through the door. Just tell them you will install DOUBLE STANDARDS AS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT.....

PW
25th January 2012, 09:01 AM
In regards to Kier, we have a good relationship with the local office and undertake a lot of work on their behalf, we were recently invited to attend an Induction Day for Scaffolding Contractors in Newcastle (Very last minute may I add, especially bearing in mind we are situated not two minutes drive from the Sheffield office!!) which we duly did and as far as I'm aware they prefer NASC Members but will accept Non Members following an Audit which as far as we are concerned is fair enough, at last a Principal Contractor with a bit of common sense and who has not fallen for the NASC schpeel.

As for as my own personnel views and many others may I add regarding the NASC I would comment as follows:

1) House Keeping
They need to get their own house in order before they start pitching their Members as the Crème De La Crème of Scaffolding Contractors, far too many times we have seen, heard or witnessed very poor and sub standard work from their Members, I personally have numerous photographs of such events, some very recently too.

2) Audit Procedure
I have heard things are changing but the Audit procedure is still very wrong, how can you be expected to feel you have had a completely unbiased Audit when the people undertaking the task are from your region, when we were being Audited we found we even shared a customer with the Auditor!! I'm not talking about some national builder, just a regional concern, In my view just wrong...The NASC are a National Organisation, why can't they have an Auditor from a different region perform the task? i.e. if a business from Newcastle upon Tyne applies, why can’t a London Auditor perform the task? They bloody charge enough!! For me it just takes away any suggestion of bias or perceived self interest.

3) The Double Standards of the Organisation.
We have applied and been failed twice, the first time it was definitely political, in fact I have been told so by a prominent local NASC Representative but obviously they are not prepared to go on record, apparently it was on the word of a local competitor who basically black balled us at the regional meeting and has done so to a number of Sheffield Applicants, however I have no proof of this so can't state it as a point of fact....However, it would be interesting to see the Stats on how many South Yorkshire Companies have applied and been accepted, I definetly know of 6 Companies that applied within the last 4 years and only 1 has gained membership this being about a year ago….I’d like to see a comparison with other regions, regions who haven’t got such vocal and photographic competitors!! Anyway…Back to our case… Apparently because we caused such a stink things were changed, they now give you a report following the Audit, but can you believe they never gave us an excuse for initially failing? They just sent the paper work back with a covering letter say basically "Sorry you’re not in" Oh...and kept the Audit fee by the way!! It was only when they were pushed did they produce a few pictures of our so called sub standard work sent in by a local competitor which was grey to say the least, but fair enough, if that’s the bench mark, so be it. So....when we in turn sent pictures of this competitors work back to them containing a Catalogue of fundamental errors (And other NASC Members in the region may I add)...What do you think happened?? Nothing...They (And the other Members with sub standard work) are still members of the organisation even though the NASC deem the faults to be such poor workmanship that it would definitely deny membership of an applying company. Then there are the cases where they don’t follow their own mandate, recently a local member went into Liquidation, basically went bust, they then re-booted the business in a different name and kept their membership, it clearly states as a condition of membership you must be trading as a company for 2 years…I will not take any credit for the last point as this was brought to light by someone else, however, another example.

Any way you cut it that’s complete double standards.

I challenge any Representative from the NASC to tell me differently, I don’t want to here about what the Organisation is doing for the Industry (Admittedly mostly good stuff) or be bogged down in flim flam of the NASC this the NASC that, I want you to come out here and deny the above….Tell me it didn’t happen……Because if you dig…you will find that it did, and in my view the NASC is far from the Crème De La Crème and should stop selling themselves as such until such a time that it actually has the respect and credence from the vast majority of the very industry it purports to represent.

ragscaff
25th January 2012, 10:01 AM
In my view an Industry Body should help its members grow & become better firms.

If you cannot get in how do you do this.

That is why the SCCR aims are to work with its members.

Develop memberships to show your potential to the principle contractor.

This includes helping the scaffolders as well companies.

We had one local firm turned down two years ago because one of their scaffolders had an ECITB ticket. Which at the time was still current.

The auditor was a local rival!!

SQ

Dass
25th January 2012, 02:01 PM
The NASC has far too much influence for what it is basically a trade association.

They may do a lot of research and technical stuff but they have ideas way above their station.

As you can see from their twitter page, they advertise themselves as the UK's regulator of scaffolding. I always thought regulators were government appointed?

general manager
25th January 2012, 04:43 PM
I have been employed by a couple of low to middle ranking NASC companies and you would not believe some of the sh1te they erect, at the last one when i brought it to the attention of the MD during our management meetings his reply was fu ck them what do they expect for the price their paying, if they want a rolls royce job they better pay top money.

With a mentality like this is it any wonder the NASC is now getting negative reports

ragscaff
25th January 2012, 05:06 PM
Just had a lad on the phone looking to move firms.

Working for an NASC firm on a kiers site said the Health & Safety was a joke.

Its all down to the guys on the tools, no back up all the pressure. Principal contractors also do ignore Health & Safety when it pleases them. Very hard to work under these conditions sometimes.

Ragscaff

moanalot
25th January 2012, 07:05 PM
This whole sorry industry is about as rotten as it can get.The sooner we all realise that these tw*ts have no interest in whats right the better we will all be. All that matters these days is the Bung...That big fat stuffed full of cash Brown Envelope...sad but true...

scaffoldingsafetyservices
25th January 2012, 07:14 PM
hope they didnt ask Harry Rednap how to get away with it.

XxIANxX
25th January 2012, 07:23 PM
Didn't Harry use his dog called Rosie

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That reminds me not seen bettertax post for a while.






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Gets coat and hope she doesn't read this thread :D

ragscaff
26th January 2012, 12:30 PM
Change is a foot.

8 days ago I posted a question on another forum.

NASC header

"'Founded in 1945 the NASC membership now accounts for over 75% of the UK's scaffolding industry.'

Anyone got any other figures in relation to scaffolding companies in the UK & how many are NASC members. I am based in Cornwall we have around 42 scaffolding companies & only 3 NASC members."

Today the header on the NASC web site is.

"Founded in 1945 the NASC membership now accounts for a significant share of the UK's total industry workload and is increasingly making its mark in Europe. Our members operate from locations throughout the UK."

Not so many members or recognition of another Industry Body?

SQ

SWIFTY
26th January 2012, 12:44 PM
Whatever next!!!! The Nasc bending the truth I'm astounded.

Flinty
26th January 2012, 08:58 PM
Making up statistics it seems? Well spotted.