How often do you build any of the following without a design drawing?

Well?:wondering:

Scaffold structures that need to be designed

Dead Shores
Flying shores
Raking shores
Cantilevered scaffolds
Truss-out Scaffolds
Access Birdcages
Façade retention
Access scaffolds with more than the 2 working lifts allowed with TG20 'Basic Scaffolds'
Buttressed free-standing scaffolds
Temporary roofs and temporary buildings
Support scaffolds
Loading Bays founded on the ground
Mobile and static towers outside base/height limitations
Free standing scaffolds outside base/height Limitations
Temporary ramps and elevated roadways
Staircases and fire escapes
Spectator Terraces and Seating Stands
Bridge scaffolds
Towers requiring guys or ground anchors
Offshore scaffolds outside Offshore Contractors Association (OCA) handbook
Pedestrian footbridges or walkways
Slung and Suspended scaffolds
Protection fans, Nets and Pavement Frames
Marine scaffolds
Boiler scaffolds
Power line crossings
Lifting gantries and towers
Steeple scaffolds
System scaffolds outside users guide parameters
Sign board supports
Sealing end structures
Temporary Storage on Site
Masts, Lighting Towers and Transmission Towers
Advertising hoardings/banners
Any scaffold structure subject to:
Vibration
High Loading
Long term duration
High risk areas
Loading from passenger/goods hoists

Yer all the time

but in these days its time to pass the buck and ask for a design drawing.

Then you get them saying do you realy need one

and how much will that cost? But we did not plan on a design

or would we get away with out one??

Quite a list Swifty,not much left,is there?

Only boring stuff Fred.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

As most of us know this list is not the only scaffolds that are supposed to be designed, there are plenty more.

it used to be that the scaffolder was the one to ask about these things,having been trained to an accepted level of compitence,then it all went titsup,when hse got involved.
walk on site ,to office,get told what needed doing,get on with it.go home,no problems.
now,have card to get on site,half day induction,wait in cabin till summoned to office,to be shown a plan of action,then try and do job to plans that the drawer has made of the site he ant seen.

That must be the stuff I can do.easy peasy.

numbnuts said:

it used to be that the scaffolder was the one to ask about these things,having been trained to an accepted level of compitence,then it all went titsup,when hse got involved.
walk on site ,to office,get told what needed doing,get on with it.go home,no problems.
now,have card to get on site,half day induction,wait in cabin till summoned to office,to be shown a plan of action,then try and do job to plans that the drawer has made of the site he ant seen.

Click to expand...

I suppose the person responsible for the design can only base it on the information they are given, if a site visit is impractical.

Would a design vary much from an experienced scaffs concept of a job. Use to just phone a scaff company,show them the job,agree a price and start date. No probs. I would recognise the need for rams on most apllications Swifty has posted. Is this an afterthought after design of building.Seems it should be shown in architechs drawings at concept stage. As numbnuts and others have posted. Turning up for jobs and delays through lack of detail.

I can and have built many many Scaffolders without a drawing that have been decent, as most of us 'should' be able to...

But in these days, with such a big emphasis on being all 'Safe' and stuff, people want to cover themselves as much as they can.

Drawings are just another way of covering arse, if things go wrong.
If you work to a drawing and dont follow it to the letter and anything goes wrong, then your the one whos in the shiit...

If im given a drawing, i usually stick to it 100% or if not, get it reapproved with the modifications added, or i wont do the job.

So what happens if you build one of the listed jobs and the HSE pay you a visit and ask to see the drawing?

Does the employee or the employer get the wrath of the HSE?

What if the employee builds the job without informing his employers first?

Just a thought.

What,s a drawing is it like a picture to show you how to do things and stuff,

superscaff75 said:

What,s a drawing is it like a picture to show you how to do things and stuff,

Click to expand...

Its a very complex series of dots and lines that usually make absolutely no sense at all... but one that will get you into endless shiit, if you dont follow it to the letter.

top and bottom on this is if you build any of these that does not have engineering calculations then you are F****D in a court of law.

Ya.

In a nut shell, your 100% right.
EVERYTHING nowadays is about covering arse... from tickets to drawings.

If you dont cover your arse, trust me, someone will seriously f.uck you over if anything goes wrong.

big difference from 20 odd years ago when the mind was the drawing now its just another faucet taken away from us,its deffo became robotic out there now.

Design by calculation, to be kept with the Scaffold plan,RA &MS for if the Brown stuff hits the twirly thing. Other words, someone to blame as the evidence is at hand.

Iv had designers on site and still manage to get the drawing wrong,job needed to be done so we were told to crack on and they will do the drawing to the finished job,the amount of crap that caused onsite I wont be doing it again,safety went mad,even though it was better then the drawing we first got.But like you all said its about passing the buck and covering your arses.No choice in this day and age.

SWIFTY said:

I suppose the person responsible for the design can only base it on the information they are given, if a site visit is impractical.

Click to expand...

Frequentley the Engineer will not visit the site as the client does not want to pay for that visit so provides the information. Be it right or wrong, that is what the Engineer has to work from.

With design engineers being stretched to the limit because of all the drawings they have to do, a simple designed scaffold could be on the waiting to erect board for 3 weeks, if your client is on a strict deadline, short of work for his men or penalty clause he is going to forgo the drawing and say fxxk the HSE, he then turns to bodgitt and scarper who do it without a drawing and for half the price and once again a decent company loses out

Once upon a time a lad became a scaffolder.

He put a lot of time & effort into his new job & enjoyed it.

Despite all the abuse & pain he stood tall, he could build anything!!

Years & years passed & he learnt from expriance & pain how to scaffold the right way.:bigsmile:

Now all you have to do is turn up to a class without learning anything then get a drawing you can not read or is incorrect ( which you cannot change anymore!!).

Then bobs your uncle & fannys your aunt NOW you can scaffold:eek

Waiting for the fallout!!!!!

Ragscaff