How many companys are working to TG:20 08 ? (1 Viewer)

Podger

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The following is and overview of the NASC Toolbox Talk on TG:20 08

"The purpose of this presentation is to give current CISRS cardholders an overview of NASC guidance TG20:08 and to provide a summary of the main changes brought about by the introduction of
BS EN12811-1 and the subsequent withdrawal of BS 5973.

Fundamentally, the principles of BS 5973 remain unchanged and there are very few changes in the day-today work of a scaffolder. Although the scope of TG20:08 is generally wider than in previous guidance, it is the justification of the design that has altered rather than the scaffold structure itself.

While dealing with many common applications, TG20:08 defines a range of scaffolds, referred to as ‘Basic scaffolds’, for which no further design is required to establish the capability of the scaffold."

A Power Point presentation can be downloaded from here TG20:08 Technical Scaffolding Guidance on the use of BS EN12811-1.

I have worked for 2 NASC accredited companies in the past year neither of whom have adopted the Technical Guidance as "best practice".

I would be interested to know how many of you guys out there are actually fixing Aberdeen transoms to ledger braced standards on sheeted scaffolds or scaffolds over 15m high , or when dog legging sways fix them over 2 lifts etc.

Also if Aberdeens are to be fitted at the frequency recomended by TG:20 we may yet see a return of the mills 90 :)
 
podger

Read your Post with interest

Regarding the use of the Aberdeen Transom: The selection of Component parts can enhance the Stability and Integrity of a Structure as well as the Time Factorwhilst erecting and the Total Self Weight. I am great believer in the GKN Millz 90z and use them on Independents and Slung Scaffolds ect when available---If there are no Millz 90z available I tend to go for Set, apply Set to every second Standard Transom---as you are aware SGB Hooks are rated at a Ball hair lower that the Set, this provision gave a superior Structure, when the cheap and cheerful single was introduced this instigated the adaption of the Aberdeen Transom---perhaps we should have promoted the Wrap-over single as a Load Bearing Component.

As you have aluded too the off the shelf " Basic " Structures do not require a Working Drawing, however, Many of the Scaffolding Design Engineers cannot select the appropriate Components for the NONE TYPE RATED Special Structures in Tube and Fittings. Therefore, Joint Consultation with the Scaffold Erectors may have been prudent and saved Time and Resources whilst compiling the present Technical Guidance.

Great Post, Podger ;)

Garry...
 
Working to TG:20 08

Hows it going podger

Here in Lyndon land we've been woking to TG:20 08 for quite a while now. Our engineers have been designing using the document, we also have had toolbox talks and standard designs for basic scaffolds.

As for Aberdeen transoms, easyfix are the way forward.
 
alrite guys.... strange to hear scaffolders talking bout scaffolding yet sounding rather clever, (no offence) :) see ive only been scaffolding 7 yrs and in all that time ive never used a mills's double, only at 'college'. was working at a n.a.s.c acredited firm back in manchester, tho it was quite the cowboy outfit, and when they changed to using two bay sway bracing i thort it was strange, and didnt really like it, prob just me being lazy. lol. as for the aberdeen transoms, if there what im thinking they are then i call um animals? they are ace didnt use um at ma first firm but when went to the nxt firm they used um, thort they were ace.....

intresting post podger....
 
hello just been looking at the nasc web do you no where i can get the new tg20 08 with out paying for it. does this comply to all scaffolders or just nasc ones?? is it me or by the time you get used to one code of practise another comesw out???
 
Hows it going podger

Here in Lyndon land we've been woking to TG:20 08 for quite a while now. Our engineers have been designing using the document, we also have had toolbox talks and standard designs for basic scaffolds.

As for Aberdeen transoms, easyfix are the way forward.

It makes one wonder how much input the manufactures of components such as easyfix have had in the consultation process :wondering:

To quote the presentation once again "The purpose of this presentation is to give current CISRS cardholders an overview of NASC guidance TG20:08 and to provide a summary of the main changes brought about by the introduction of
BS EN12811-1 and the subsequent withdrawal of BS 5973"

As Gary points out there appears to be have been very little if any consultation with the men at the front line ie: the CISRS cardholders.
 
alrite guys.... strange to hear scaffolders talking bout scaffolding yet sounding rather clever, (no offence) :) see ive only been scaffolding 7 yrs and in all that time ive never used a mills's double, only at 'college'. was working at a n.a.s.c acredited firm back in manchester, tho it was quite the cowboy outfit, and when they changed to using two bay sway bracing i thort it was strange, and didnt really like it, prob just me being lazy. lol. as for the aberdeen transoms, if there what im thinking they are then i call um animals? they are ace didnt use um at ma first firm but when went to the nxt firm they used um, thort they were ace.....

intresting post podger....

I think it only fair that Gary being from Aberdeen should be the one to explain the Aberdeen Transom.

I look forward to another eloquent post, Ive often wondered why its know as the Aberdeen , i suspect it has something to do with the offshore industry and the trapeze method of erecting hangers taught at the CITB centers .
 
The first time I can remember using an Aberdeen Transom was when the pressed steel 90z stickies and Singles were first introduced. The originator of the Aberdeen Transom is lost in the midst of time, however, my personal interpretation and purpose of an AT is :

The AT is a Transom which is applied to a set of Standards by means of a Double Coupler viz a vi a Pressed Steel Presco or Stickies and or Dropped Forged Type, directly below the Coupler which is applied to the two Ledgers.

This Provision ( the AT ) provides a Load bearing capacity where Singles Couplers are used to affix Transoms to the working lift. Given that the Slip Test capacity ( Load Bearing ) of a Single Coupler is not sufficient to mitigate against splaying of the Ledgers :eek:, an AT is applied to the Structure.

HOWEVER, as Podger has already pointed out, if Millz 90z ( Load Bearing ) are used to affix both the Ledgers and Transoms this eliminates the need for an AT.

To add stability and to uniform the compression force of the single we affixed the single with the Bolt innermost to the parallel Ledgers.

Garry...
 
What about the idea of using aberdeens,and plan bracing to each lift,so that diagonal bracing can be left out so there is nothing fouling access of the working lifts..
 
What about the idea of using aberdeens,and plan bracing to each lift,so that diagonal bracing can be left out so there is nothing fouling access of the working lifts..

Fixing Aberdeens and Plans to 2m lifts = a lot of sore heeds :cry:
 
your spot on podger,shame lifts are restricted to 2m now,it plays havoc with hard hats..
 
Saw Heads

Gents

Like I said before Easyfix = no ledger bracing and no Aberdeen transoms. And you cost out the materials i.e fittings for ledgers, fittings for braces, fittings for AT's plus the tubing all equals savings in materials, savings in erect dismantle time, savings in transport plus the customers happier no ducking under braces all day long. It's the way forward (till the powers that be say it's a system and make us do a course on it).
 
The first time I can remember using an Aberdeen Transom was when the pressed steel 90z stickies and Singles were first introduced. The originator of the Aberdeen Transom is lost in the midst of time, however, my personal interpretation and purpose of an AT is :

The AT is a Transom which is applied to a set of Standards by means of a Double Coupler viz a vi a Pressed Steel Presco or Stickies and or Dropped Forged Type, directly below the Coupler which is applied to the two Ledgers.

This Provision ( the AT ) provides a Load bearing capacity where Singles Couplers are used to affix Transoms to the working lift. Given that the Slip Test capacity ( Load Bearing ) of a Single Coupler is not sufficient to mitigate against splaying of the Ledgers :eek:, an AT is applied to the Structure.

HOWEVER, as Podger has already pointed out, if Millz 90z ( Load Bearing ) are used to affix both the Ledgers and Transoms this eliminates the need for an AT.

To add stability and to uniform the compression force of the single we affixed the single with the Bolt innermost to the parallel Ledgers.

Garry...

Do you not find that the boards are very loose when using animals??
 
Do you not find that the boards are very loose when using animals??

Apparently boards widths have a tolerance between an upper and lower limit, boards tend to be supplied towards the lower end of this limit, however easyfix (animals) have to allow for a full deck of boards at the upper limit.

We tend to just angle the toeboard slightly to close the gap.
 
Apparently boards widths have a tolerance between an upper and lower limit, boards tend to be supplied towards the lower end of this limit, however easyfix (animals) have to allow for a full deck of boards at the upper limit.

We tend to just angle the toeboard slightly to close the gap.

Even with the toeboard sitting on the animals its about a 55mm gap, that would mean that each of the 5 boards would need to swell by 11mm to fill the gap (more if the toeboard sits on top), how often do boards get to that size? Doesnt angling the toeboard reduces its effectiveness... there must be a better way.
 
Even with the toeboard sitting on the animals its about a 55mm gap, that would mean that each of the 5 boards would need to swell by 11mm to fill the gap (more if the toeboard sits on top), how often do boards get to that size? Doesnt angling the toeboard reduces its effectiveness... there must be a better way.

I dont think angling the boards has any reduction in their effectiveness and they are still above the 150mm minimum height. The only problem we tend to have is that some types of single tend to want to pull the toeboard back vertical as you tighten them up.
 
It is my belief that AT's were first introduced offshore by a man who shall remain nameless. First time we had to use them was back in early 80's. The guy who insisted on them had formed his own inspection company and this was practically the first thing they picked up. Even on a tower he wanted them although we thought that as the h/rail was tied with doubles at every lift you would not need an AT. Called AT's because all the guys who came to work in the north sea from all over the country had never seen or heard the like til they worked for Aberdeen Scaffolding Company.
 
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