Is system the way forward?

Last year Dsl at Fawley refinery decided that Layher was the way forward so pledged that from then on every job we put up would be Layher.
As you Know Scaffolding In an oil Refinery Can be a nightmare at the best of times.
Everything is in your way, access and egress is generally a problem with most of jobs you put up .
Tube and fitting is so versatile in that you can overcome all obstacles that are presented by this environment.
Everything was fine.... Then they said right from now on use Layher.
I have used System a lot on street-work and around buildings and my honest opinion its great Its fast , simple and easy to adapt.
But how would it work in here?
At first it was difficult to get any sort of square in before you hit a problem, but as time went by we gained more knowledge and more components it worked in 80 per cent of the jobs.
I still prefer tube and fitting but it just goes to show that system is probably the way forward even though we don't like to admit it.

System scaff

When I was on for sgb we used cup lock we made a lot because it went up so fast but you will all way's be limited with what you can do with the stuff plus any one could put system scaffold up there's no skill in it at all I vote for T&F all day long

I've worked at fawley meself and if your doing that much with layher there belive me there is some sort of thought and skill going into it.

scaffdude said:

I've worked at fawley meself and if your doing that much with layher there belive me there is some sort of thought and skill going into it.

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And alot of f'ing headaches

I used system gear for yrs in ireland great if you want fast cheap and cheerful,but not versatile enough,a mixture of the 2 seems to be the way the big firms are goin.

Mixing layer with tube and fitting is ok sometimes, but it can be a right pain in the arse, example... when punching up off of beams the rings on the standards
don't workout right with the brace and horizontal members of the beam.
9 inch Boards do not work out with bay size's.
We have a lot of strange and wonderful components. Some of which have been especially been made up by layher for use in this refinery. It is very adaptable if you have all these components and the knowledge of how to use them to get around obstacles. If you have worked in Fawley refinery you will know how difficult it is, there is so much stuff in your way and for layher to be actually working in here proves something.

t&f v system

t&f will always be the daddy... but layher is amazing only down side is the price, very expensive and 1000`s of components. kwik stage is only good for a few years, cuplok very solid but limited..

Have used most of the system scaffolds and yes they are quick once you have
mastered them. T and F is the most vesitile for industrial work as you have that
much in the way.

ever used van tiel its one of the easiest system scaffolds to put up. i worked for crossways around yorkshire and the scaffolding just flew up.

Used a lot of the layer system in uk,very rapid decent gear,but those giant cheese graters used for boards do sweede in.Also used it offshore last year seems they like the idea of it,just not adaptable enough or is that just me like many other scaffs not wanting to accept that times could be changing.Tube and fit will always be no1

System

Hi guys ,i work with a small building firm up here in the far north of Scotland , most of the work we do is for house builds or repairs so needless to say we mainly use system , did do one job in a school boiler room and one round a church steeple where it had to be t&f ,system definately quicker to erect meaning less cost to the customer and they all look to save money wherever possible these days

DECROMAX said:

Last year Dsl at Fawley refinery decided that Layher was the way forward so pledged that from then on every job we put up would be Layher.
As you Know Scaffolding In an oil Refinery Can be a nightmare at the best of times.
Everything is in your way, access and egress is generally a problem with most of jobs you put up .
Tube and fitting is so versatile in that you can overcome all obstacles that are presented by this environment.
Everything was fine.... Then they said right from now on use Layher.
I have used System a lot on street-work and around buildings and my honest opinion its great Its fast , simple and easy to adapt.
But how would it work in here?
At first it was difficult to get any sort of square in before you hit a problem, but as time went by we gained more knowledge and more components it worked in 80 per cent of the jobs.
I still prefer tube and fitting but it just goes to show that system is probably the way forward even though we don't like to admit it.

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I don't remember much layher on the big towers last year at Fawley, as a matter of fact most of the towers and bundles were tubing,the only time they used a lot of layher was the laydown area that the Poles built in their 15 man squad.
As far as i remember Jenkinson said they wanted to make it 80% system and 20% tubing but it ended up the other way round

tinheads said:

I don't remember much layher on the big towers last year at Fawley, as a matter of fact most of the towers and bundles were tubing,the only time they used a lot of layher was the laydown area that the Poles built in their 15 man squad.
As far as i remember Jenkinson said they wanted to make it 80% system and 20% tubing but it ended up the other way round

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I done the 2 of the 3 towers with tube and fitting for the pipestills turnaround. that was nearly 2 years ago.
its changed alot we are now using around 80 per cent layher now.
the sp4 turnaround is all layer.
whats your name i might of worked with you?

I'm Stevie, Started out under Rodney workin block 8 with Wayne, Matt and Parker, then changed to under Billy Ray during the shutdown mainly doing mods to the T5 for those 30 inch pipes goin in

hi,its gotta be tube n fitting every time for me, i have used the cuplock and layher and yellow jack systems over the last 27 years(1)too many components(2)very awkward to handle quickly(3)you need around 37% more gear than tube n fitting,eg basically you have 8ft bays with system scaff and 3m standards apart from cuplock 3ooo which you dont see much of,tube n fitting 21ft both ways,yes you got the extra with the fittings but if you can spin the spanners its just as quick,getting organized is 70% of the job which ever you use,also system scaff is a bugger to stack it back in the stillages properly,to give you some sort of idea as to the speed of tube n fitting cottham boiler needs 35000 fittings roughly so you can imagin the rest of the kit to go with it,its up and handed over in 7 days and 3 shifts to strip it.also its impossible to do a fly on the wall tube leak inside any of the coal burning powerstations with system scaff,lastly how would you erect a flying shore with system scaff??tube n fitting or animals( double arms).everyone to their own though.

Layer

I used it on for hertel on teeside on a refinery on colums it woz ok but had to snag all inside with tube and fitting

I stand with galv injection, " every one to his own " it's a case of horses for courses.

Prefabricated System Scaffold have their place and most Types are very versitile, however, with the increase of popularity and the prefered use by Scaffold Companies, primeraly for its rapid deployment, economics, and it's ease of use by the System Installers, moreover, with Sysyem being the chosen preferance of the majority of Scaffolding Operarors for the reasons already stated, this is creating a deficate of Scaffolders who have the experiance and skill to erect Special Structures in Tube and Fittings.

Tube and Fitting Scaffolds are fast becoming a Specialisim, even the CITB have recognised this and now offer System Courses.

The danger being when a Candidate get his/her Card and then is confrunted with a Tube and Fitting Structure, they are lost :wondering:---I have had first hand experiance of this, a young team came offshore---I gave them a wee T+F Job, too save face they did not declare them selfs and proceded to dismantle the Job ---I stood by to monitor the Task---what a mess, poor Guys didni hiv a clue---this was not THEIR FAULT, they had never had the opportunity to be Coached in T+F---

There are no 'Peg-Bangers' here offshore in Nigeria..!!!

My first sizeable encounter with Layher was in 2007 on the Adriatic LNG Project as a Scaffold Superintendent/Inspector for ExxonMobil in Cadiz, Spain. We had 1'100 tons and 180 Spanish Scaffs on 6 topsides and it was an absolute nightmare! 40% of our work was suspended, so you could imagine the fun I had? I do have a soft spot for Cuplok as I earned a fortune with SGB as a scaff and we used rakes of in S.E.Asia and kept the local competition at bay in terms of speed and stability on some major formwork projects. The great thing about it is it's a modular scaffold and mixes with T&F's.

But all these systems most certainly should be erected/dismantled by qualified CISRS Scaffolders in my opinion, because when problems occur (as they always do!), you need expertise & skilled training to sort it out.

Yellow Jelly.... nah, Tube & Fitting forever..!!!

Cheers,
Phil.

Phil McCree said:

There are no 'Peg-Bangers' here offshore in Nigeria..!!!

My first sizeable encounter with Layher was in 2007 on the Adriatic LNG Project as a Scaffold Superintendent/Inspector for ExxonMobil in Cadiz, Spain. We had 1'100 tons and 180 Spanish Scaffs on 6 topsides and it was an absolute nightmare! 40% of our work was suspended, so you could imagine the fun I had? I do have a soft spot for Cuplok as I earned a fortune with SGB as a scaff and we used rakes of in S.E.Asia and kept the local competition at bay in terms of speed and stability on some major formwork projects. The great thing about it is it's a modular scaffold and mixes with T&F's.

But all these systems most certainly should be erected/dismantled by qualified CISRS Scaffolders in my opinion, because when problems occur (as they always do!), you need expertise & skilled training to sort it out.

Yellow Jelly.... nah, Tube & Fitting forever..!!!

Cheers,
Phil.

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Well said phil

Phil McCree said:

I do have a soft spot for Cuplok as I earned a fortune with SGB as a scaff

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I know...I was there!! :toung:

Have used all of the systems over the years as a Scaffolder & Manager. Layher, Haki, Cuplok, Hang Lok Etc Etc And the best of the lot in my view is Cuplok (I know I'm ex SGB so am a bit bias) basically because its the system that accommedates T&F so easily, it fits to the standards, ledgers, even trannies.

The worst in my view is Layher....Looks and indeed the quality of the materials is great (It is German after all) but doesnt transport well (I would say you would get double the meterage of T&F on an equivilant vehicle) has too many components and costs a fortune to service, the biggest bug bear is the gap between the main deck and the inside brackets, there is clearly a 100mm gap minimum to the ledger below.

T&F all the way (With Double Arms/Ready Lock Whatever they are called in your neck of the woods)