Scaffold design (1 Viewer)

richard challis

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just recently i have priced a couple temporary roofs and in my price break down id put the scaffold design fee and the customer has come back to me saying that the other companys havent got them so making the job cheaper i told her this would make there insurance invalid am i correct in saying this ? many thanks in advance for anyones help. ps before anyone asks they havent priced it in and not put in the break down they just arent going to use one.:sad2::sad2:
 
Have you thought they maybe already have one from an earlier project? Maybe I'm wrong but can you not use earlier projects as a basis for design? If there is no design then not only is the scaff at fault but client as well.
 
not that im aware they d ever use one it would have to be a very similar job surely?its a thought tho
 
Yes it would have to be very similar but calculations and wind loads would be the most important part of design(so I have been told). There are a couple of boy's more used to temporary roofs than I am but I'm almost sure some must go up without a brand new design.
 
If you erect any scaffold that is deemed to require a drawing, and the smelly stuff hits the fan,or the HSE inspector pays a visit,Your insurance will be null and void.

This is why the CDM regs were brought in.
 
What about tweaking a drawing to suit other sites Rigger?
 
NO
Unless tweaked by a qualified engineer that can prove the calculations will also apply to the new job and signs them off.

The lay of the land, elevation above sea level,other buildings and structures,time of year, will all play a part in the calculations.

The only time I could see a case for using the same design is if you went back and re-erected the exact same job you had erected before.Any change ie Time of year,boarded lifts ect.would require a new assessment and updated design

There can be no such thing as a Generic design for a job that under legislation and TG20 requires a bespoke design
 
I stand corrected Rigger, although I am not so sure or maybe just confused with the masses of information coming from different sources. Maybe things are different for roofs but even Mr hse allows designs for things like loading bay's to be used for multiple sites.
 
As always aom it is all open to interpretation,generic Loading bay designs are allowed when they conform to the set standards allowed.If it does not a design is required
 
Yeah, that's why when ever a client ask about my RAMS I always tell them they are site specific and not generic..........but they are all the same.:embarrest:
 
To be honest I think that the majority of RAMS are just used over and over again and tweaked to each site or job.The big boys are at it just as much as the smaller outfits

It is a few years since I was at the sharp end trying to run a company and make a profit.There is no way I would do it in todays climate of regulation and "guidelines"

onward and upward or if your striking Downward and back to the yard
 
maybe got in house design engineer and like other companys are doing with there kit at the minute to win jobs, throw the design in for nothing, doesnt have to show on quote
 
The trouble with the tempory roofs is there are never 2 the same , it all comes down to what the roof is bearing of , how high it is above the building and even which part of town its in ( wind loading) the span of the trusses etc etc etc
 
just recently i have priced a couple temporary roofs and in my price break down id put the scaffold design fee and the customer has come back to me saying that the other companys havent got them so making the job cheaper i told her this would make there insurance invalid am i correct in saying this ? many thanks in advance for anyones help. ps before anyone asks they havent priced it in and not put in the break down they just arent going to use one.:sad2::sad2:

Just as a bit of a back up, I always indicate the Design cost on our quotes, if the client is not willing to go along with it then thats their problem, its the "What If" syndrome, I do not want to be up in court on potential Manslaughter charges...

P.S. We are only a small company so no way can we stand the cost of design.
 
Hi all,

A quick tip from an engineer on this one, don't purchase generics as they are simply useless. One of the previous comments hit the nail on the head "CDM" "Wind Loads" etc. In theory, even loading bays shouldn't be generic as each design should be specific to the site. One question, if you build a loading bay on one site with a topsoil footing is this the same as a clay footing say?...No, the ground should be assessed and prepared on each site following suitable profession investigation and preparation. This therefore gives a different bearing pressure resulting in a different foundation design. That's just the beginning.

For all the scaffolders, don't waste your money buying generics as you will be just buying trouble! TG20:08 is in place for your standard scaffolds - just quote the configuration, wind zone and table and you shouldn't have a problem.

With regards to temporary roofs, it would be daft to have a generic roof as they are definitely all very different. The HSE will be all over you on this one if you are caught out.

I hope that this helps in not being missold a generics package and enlightens on what the Regulations pretty much say - don't use generics! Regulations are the law of the land and not TG20 ;-)

R
 
There are so many companys using an old plan for tempory roofs.I even know a NASC company that is using the sheeted tempory roofs.System, they just stuck a job up recently and got cought out by the customer and the forman when they asked for the plans on the tempory roof... Made them look like a bunch of *****.
This type of scffolding is big money and we all see the littel men in our areas who dont desighn nothing and when a Nasc member is up and doing the same just goes to show. Times are hard or is it bad manadgment...
I would love to see a basic desighn on a shrink wrap tempory roof, if anyone could send me one we have some muppets putting these up with no counter weight in the bottom of the scaffolding or on top. They look great when the seaguls finished with the shrink wrap...
 
Scaffold Eng: Nail on the head mate.

I feel the same about generic drawings but don't really voice my opinion as good friends of mine who run their own design companies decide to sell them, I'd rather just not say anything unless I'm asked by my clients....

We don't sell generic designs and never will. That said, if you get a design for a loading bay say for a specific site, then you plan to use it again (erected in an identical way) on another site, then we will only charge the time it takes to amend the original design. This is usually just a couple of hours max. This way our clients have bespoke designs for every job but don't pay the full amount for each one. Same applies to all scaffolds, if a client has built something similar before and lots of bits can be transferred over, then there is cost savings to be made. Yes calcs are new, thats a given.

I personally think we have to offer this kind of money saving option to our clients, if they win more work, we win more work: we're in it together.

We do a similar things with site surveys and training staff to gather information themselves were possible.... all this stuff adds up!!

Sorry, I digressed somewhat there.

Ben
 
All sites are subject to different wind conditions so the loads change, hence design changes. Might be same equipment ultimately but the important thing is it is checked so we are confident the kit is the same. Loading towers should also be designed - but if you have a design and it is the same on every job then you'll probably be fine - also not so sensitive to wind.
 
Wish I went to school now.:wondering:
 
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