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  1. #1
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    Default Sccr

    Please visit the home of the Scaffolders Forum for Consultation Rights - http://www.scaffoldersforum.com/grou...on-rights.html

    The group was setup due to there being a general consensus, regarding the lack of Consultation, regarding the provision for feedback, from Small/Medium/Enterprises (SME's) and Employees, to put their views across to the Policy makers and Training providers.

    The group has already had a meeting with the HSE and are planning on meeting with the NASC in the near future.

    Join Here - to have your say!
    Contact Us - To Advertise On The World's Largest Online Community For Scaffolders!

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  3. #2
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    cheers boss

  4. #3
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    I have had a reply from the NASC in regards ECITB & a meting!!

    "Dear Mr Quinney
    Could you let me know who you are dealing with in HSE, what the agenda and aim of the meeting will be and a date, time and location, if I am available I will hopefully attend, dependent on diary commitments.

    We have been in negotiations with both the ECI and the Unions in relation to ECI Skills Database cards, for over 10 years, we have never put any agreement in place re the acceptance of ECI skills cards. Although I do not doubt many of the ECI skills cards holders are very experienced scaffolders, I did hold the card myself and know several very good scaffolders who held these cards, however that card is issued based upon experience and employer endorsement only, as opposed to the CISRS scheme which is based upon formal training, experience and assessment.

    All ECI cardholders were written to by the ECI informing them that they would have to obtain CISRS cards by the end of this year and that they would require training. The unions sent out further correspondence requesting responses from card holders who did not already hold a CISRS card and were opposed to carrying out training, the response was very poor, less than 100. It was felt that the vast majority of existing ECI card holders had now undertaken the CISRS training and obtained their CISRS card.

    We have not had a Grandfather rights route to a CISRS card for over 25 years, we did have an Assessed Route of Entry course in place for over 10 years 1996-2006, for experienced scaffolders however this was withdrawn following the introduction of the WAH Regs 2005, which stated competence for Scaffolder must include specific formal training which is opposed to an assessment only route.

    If you can provide me with the further information as requested, I will respond accordingly.

    Regards
    Dave Mosley
    CISRS "


    Ragscaff

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  6. #4
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    Default sCCR Mission Statement

    S.C.C.R

    Scaffolders Confederation for Consolation Rights

    Mission Statement

    The S.C.C.R’s main mission is to represent the whole of the Scaffolding Industry. The main aim is to represent the working Scaffolder along side the Employer. Too many divisions exist in the Industry at the moment.

    We are going through a major change with the way we have to work & our representation is not as it should be.

    From small one man bands to major companies & from the hard working Scaffolder to the Design company or Consumables Supplier there is a need for another voice.
    One from the roots.

    An avenue has been opened with the HSE. This is the major step, we have been given the chance for regular meetings throughout the year to voice our concerns & have Consultation on major changes to our Industry.

    The main point of contact will be through the Scaffolders Forum, from which we were formed. All correspondence will be posted on the Committee for Consultation Rights.

    Main Objectives

    1/ Training
    2/ SG4 2010
    3/ Clarity on what is law & what is guidance
    4/ The newest & most URGENT ECITB ticket holders

    We need to from a formal Committee

    Anyone wishing to put themselves or another member forward please Private PM me.

    Regards Ragscaff

  7. #5
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    Default Statement sent to NASC

    Dear Mr Mosley,

    Thank-you for your quick reply.

    I will be happy to talk to you on the phone but feel the need to comply the following statement & would welcome your reply prior to a phone conversation.

    I am an Advanced Scaffolder under your scheme, my personal experience is as follows, I gained my card through the assessed route of entry. After being in the industry for about 15 years companies were starting to ask for them. I remember when I first heard about them, back then they were CITB tickets. My boss offered me the chance to go for a CITB ticket or HGV. I went for the HGV & that has got me more work over the years than the CITB ticket could have. A Scaffolder who can drive a class 1!!! I have worked for many Scaffold firms & undertaken all types of work other than offshore. I am very experienced & top of my game as some would say!!

    Now you know me.

    The forum I represent has posted the following & would like a response.

    Regards ECITB tickets & score card tickets that have the CITB stamp on them.

    1/ Why can’t the CISRS arrange a days assessment for the above who have 5 years experience & above?

    2/ Why should someone with a level 6 ECITB card with years of experience need to do 2 weeks part 1 course with people that only need 6 months experience? They should be assessed at the level they are now on!!

    3/ If you can get testaments from 3 major companies that you have worked for at the level you are currently working at then the ECITB should be transferred to the equivalent CISRS card. Or in a number of years when someone decides that the CISRS card is not good enough do we go through this again?

    4/ As I understand it’s the NVQ that is needed to get CISRS cards, so why do we need to do the 2 weeks training course as this is nothing to do with the NVQ? Why can’t we just do the portfolio on site & send it away?

    5/ Would like to say if it isn’t a money spinner like the CSCS & ECITB CCSNG which is still recognised even though its ECITB why can’t ECITB scaffolders have the course for free, is it because all the firms & scaffolders that have paid for it YTS CISRS would want their money back! Forget the training what about experience, lets move forward with this ECITB issue wake up NASC you’ll get your own way next year as ECITB will be dead after 25 years plus!!

    6/ How can you not include ECITB scaffolders who are highly trained & ticketed inline with many job related codes of practice, CCSNG, IPAF, PASMA, PTS, confined space & SG4.05 as well as many years of recorded industry experience all in line with the NVQ!!

    7/ Its an insult that the NASC expect experienced scaffolders to join the CISRS system at trainee level attending a course which is tailored made for candidates with six months experience?

    8/ Why can’t ECITB ticket holders with 5years or more be exempt from the part 1 & part 2 & be awarded the NVQ based on portfolios & assessment in the same way as part 2 thus entering the CISRS at an appropriate level.

    9/ Why is it that the NASC & the CISRS is not one company & why wasn’t ECITB merged into CISRS when the training was removed from the CITB?

    10/ Why is it that the ECITB ticket is not being recognised when it should be? It runs out December 2010, no firm will touch it now. Also most sites want the labourer to have CISRS, what the CSCS for?? How do you get 6 months experience to get CISRS!!!!!!!!

    11/ Almost hate to mention it but is there any chance of mentioning SCORE cards. I don't know if you have come across them or if it is just a Scottish thing but there is loads of lads up here with them and they have citb stamped all over them but main contractors stopped accepting them with the same consequences as the ecitb cards. Why???

    12/ New Qualifications Strategy
    Vocational Qualifications Reform Programme
    To support the recommendations of the Leitch Report upon future skills needs, a government coordinated programme of qualifications reform is currently under way. This programme aims to establish a simplified structure of qualifications that reflect the skills and knowledge that employers value. Emerging qualifications will be based upon the expressed needs of employers within each sector of the UK economy. These needs have been collated through a consultative process led by the various sector bodies concerned, including ECITB.

    To provide a foundation for more flexible qualifications, a national credit based framework will progressively be introduced by 2010. This framework will be populated with units with defined levels and credit values, which can be combined into the qualifications that meet employer needs. The units will only be accepted into the framework if the related qualifications are derived from published Qualifications Strategies. Furthermore, central funding will only be available for qualifications that consist of units included within the framework, and that therefore clearly stem from employer needs.

    Requirements of a Qualifications Strategy
    The key requirements of a Qualifications Strategy are that it must:

    •Provide a strategic vision of the future qualifications landscape required by employers within a sector of the UK economy
    •Define priorities for the development of new qualifications and National Occupational Standards
    •Be developed through substantial employer consultations
    •Meet defined quality standards, including having a separate focus upon each of the four nations.
    The Qualifications Strategy may well address such strategic aims as for example to:
    •Enhance the image of the industry and its ability to recruit suitable new entrants
    •Increase the volume of training within the industry
    •Develop the skills and competence of key employee groups
    •Increase the level of take up and/or completion rate of qualifications
    •Increase the relevance and flexibility of available qualifications
    •Support coherent career pathways
    •Align UK, EU and overseas qualifications.

    To me that ticks all the boxes, End of problem, NVQs2 and 3 as awarded= Equals CISRS Scaffolder or CISRS Advanced.

    So why are the ECITB,CISRS,CSCS and NASC not in consultation, stating the ECITB guys have a 'Right to not be refused' a CISRS card, when Portfolios and ECITB cards are and can readily be supplied by some of this country's most qualified scaffolders.


    To sum up
    20,000 plus scaffolders in the Industry 15% may be affected 3,000 men.

    You have already put people out of work!!

    Even if one man is affected its worth looking at let alone up to 3,000!!!!!!!!!

    The issue of the poor training methods developed by the CISRS is the main topic for the meeting in October with the HSE & your detailed comments to this statement will be a major talking point in it.

    I will forward you a date & full agenda nearer the time.

    Regards S.Quinney

    Ragscaff
    Scaffolders Confederation for Consultation Rights

  8. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to ragscaff For This Useful Post:

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  9. #6
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    My heads above the parapet again mate.

    Let there be noise.
    Treat life like a dog: If you can't eat it, play with it, or hump it, p1$$ on it and walk away!

    http://www.thesccr.org/ join us lads, for our future.

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    same as that guys -

  11. #8
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    Its seems that the vast majority of forum members share the view that the NASC safety training and technical initiatives are being led buy training providers and equipment manufactures in the pursuit of £££££s and not by HSE directives as NASC would have use believe.

    For example SG4:05 is to be REVIEWED every 5 yrs at the request of the HSE. NASC however have taken it upon themselves to completely REVISE the "guidance" with SG4:10 imminent creating the need for more training and equipment.

    What ever happened to the "If it isn't broke it dont need fixing " approach ?
    Had my Frogs since they were Tadpoles

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    Puppet strings, springs to mind .Podger mate.
    Treat life like a dog: If you can't eat it, play with it, or hump it, p1$$ on it and walk away!

    http://www.thesccr.org/ join us lads, for our future.

  13. #10
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    I have asked for statistics for accidents from falls from heights. I cannot find a table that shows how many scaffolders die or are injured from falls from heights. I am told that most of the falls are a result of other trades tampering & falling or no scaffold & falling off ladders.

    So why all the fuss on us, why not make tampering with scaffold a reportable incident!!!!


    Ragscaff

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