Hi all
has anyone else done the Intro to TG 20:08 induction,yawn, yawn.
As you,s are all aware we now cannot put a foot tie round a rabbit hutch unless we have a drawing/design by calculation.

The new proforma of TG:20 08 that was meant to aide the scaffs as in clear perimeters of our op;s in my opinion have drove another nail in the coffin of SME's

As all the old spanner hands will know, the job was sorted over a couple of shandy;s lol. wrote on the back of a Tab pkt.

Please dont get me wrong, H&S is my new course of action, however, why take the ability of a fully trained competent scaffolder, out of the equation when it comes down to design of a scaffold. What do those guys that get a fancy bit of paper and a nice software package know, about topping off,droppers and needles, cantilevers,truss outs and flying shores.

Aye, Paddy M8

I can remember the time that the Boss would show you the job and leave you to it. The Scaffs would conduct a Pre-Task Analysis, establish a Safe System of Work and Method Statement, calculate a Bill of Quantities, Safety Management Strategy and select the appropriate Correlation, Permutation and Configuration of the Structure and then they would spring aloft and Erect it, from conception to completion.

Now, we have 3/4 office Waller's to do all the jobs ( all of the Above ) that the Scaffolder did, exept the actual Erect. Then they have the audasity to venture out of their nice warm offices for a breath of fresh air and stretch their legs and proceed to nit pick our work.

Should Line Management and Scaffold Design Engineers be drawn from the ranks of qualified Scaffolding Erectors ?

Garry...

Hi Gazza m8 my learned friend.
The way forward in my opinion is simple, let the guys that do the jobs, ie, the scaffs, that want to advance their career have the oppurtunity to take any course that they want.

I rember 31 years ago when i fist started 'Humping the 21's' there in the toilet block written on the wall was a 'Ode to a scaffolder'. Strength of a shire horse, speed of a racehorse and brains of a rockyhorse. Those days are long gone and i am glad of the fact.

Nowadays, a Scaffolder is a well trained competent person, he/she will have a well documented portfolio that can used to there advantage on gaining promotion/advancement and recognition of there achievements, also in my opinion, a scaff is more aware of H&S regs, than most on site, even the gaffers.

Paddy

Most scaffolds now apart from the basic ind are now classed as advanced structures,and according to the powers that be should be accompanied by a drawing relevent to the job,hence extra cost to firms to get a engineers drawing.Its all about arse covering now.

TG20....What a farce that has been, I was at an NASC presentaion when they rolled out TG20:05, it was explained to us by a couple of boffins who just talked pure gobbildy gook!! It went straight over my head until someone who had been on the tools did a translation!! As it turned out a lot of it was wrong (Ledger bracing and Plan Bracing details to name but 2 areas) and had to be re-written at great expense to the NASC and to which we now have the TG20:08

In regard to advanced structure, we basically took the plunge and had prepared by the Engineer we use "Standard Design Solutions" for stuff like loading towers, stair towers, pavement gantries etc etc and just change to suit...we have found it a very cost effective way of getting around the situation.

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I'm not a COMPLETE idiot...there are still bits missing!!

PW,

Was it also true that the tw@t who decided to cut the facade brace down to every 5 bays failed to take the tie patterns into consideration, and now we are back to every 6th bay.

Money well spent there kidda..!!!

Cheers,
Phil.

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'I'm only here cos I'm fed up with Facebook..!!!'

Phil

It was a group of Engineers commisioned by the NASC to put the document together, so obviously no common sense applied!! The item you mentioned was indeed an error on their behalf but I think the biggest one was they assumed that the HSE & others wanted ledger bracing ommited as per system scaffolds for unobstructed passage along a fully boarded structure hence all the additional tieing and plan bracing in the T&F scaffolds in TG20:05, they took the document to print and indeed rolled out the new scheme based on this assumption.

This I was informed was simply not the case and the HSE were quite prepared to accept ledger bracing in the structure despite the ledger brace obstructions....Big re-write....Big embarrassment...Big cost.

It put quite a smile on my face when we recieved our 08 rewrite F.O.C.

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I'm not a COMPLETE idiot...there are still bits missing!!

TG20:05 is it freely downloadable would like to read up on it

"Should Line Management and Scaffold Design Engineers be drawn from the ranks of qualified Scaffolding Erectors"

Absolutly 100%, had this discussion on IOSH Forum.

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

Orac
"TG20:05 is it freely downloadable would like to read up on it"

Nothing is free from the NASC

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Make sure your next erection is in safe hands

Scaff

One of our fellow Forum Members, Podger has just signed up for an Open Uni Engineering Course---the SSG is going to give him all the assistance we can---10 out of 10 to the Podger for pickin up the challenge.