Scaffolders Forum – The World’s Largest Scaffolding Community  

Go Back   Scaffolders Forum – The World’s Largest Scaffolding Community > Scaffolding Careers / Scaffolding Jobs > Scaffolding Qualifications and Scaffolding Training Courses


Scaffolding Qualifications and Scaffolding Training Courses A forum for the discussion of the various recognised Scaffolding qualifications including; CISRS, NVQ, SVQ, CSCS, and scaffolding training courses.

Scaffolding Qualifications and Scaffolding Training Courses Forum Proudly Sponsored By:
Advertise On The Scaffolders Forum

Welcome to the Scaffolders Forum!

The world’s most visited scaffolding website with over 28,998 members and 321,136 posts! CREATE MY SCAFFOLDERS FORUM ACCOUNT NOW!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
SNIPER03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: glasgow
Posts: 169
Thanks: 3
Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Default

did my part 1 in 92',patr2 96' n advance wa SGB in 2005 n assements in 2005 and all of it was in T&F n only did systems when i was with SGB!!,T7F is the only way to do scaffolds,any other way,you are not a scaff!!!
Reply With Quote



  #12 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
aom's Avatar
aom aom is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 14,619
Thanks: 6,138
Thanked 5,872 Times in 4,179 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Podger View Post
In each of the 3 current courses on route to Advanced (T&F) there is a system module.

Part 1: Erect and dismantle independent system scaffold

Part 2: Product Familiarization in system scaffold

Advanced: Erect and dismantle staircase T&F and System

IMO the need for additional system training for Advanced and Part 2 devalues the CITB scaffolders training program as it stands. .

Lets be honest its all about the $$$$$$$$$
I'm with you on that one podger. When I did my ticket's there was nothing else in amongst it, but now the young team are coming back with all sorts mixed in. Don't get me wrong, it saves heaps on other training as insurance and nasc auditors get to tick all their wee box's.

Paddy,

I agree also that knowledge is power, but to send an experienced scaff on a course to erect yellow jelly is more to do with the cash than the benefit of the man or the firm.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
aom's Avatar
aom aom is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 14,619
Thanks: 6,138
Thanked 5,872 Times in 4,179 Posts
Default

Sure, every system will have it's quircks, but I reckon we could all read a manuall if we had to. There is bound to be a trick or two that users could teach us but I think t&f scaffs could handle the basic principle.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aom For This Useful Post:
scaff22 (22nd July 2010)
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
Podger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 513
Thanks: 138
Thanked 351 Times in 197 Posts
Default Competent Person

Under the relevant health and safety laws a scaffold must be erected by a "Competent Person" Therefore how could an Advanced Scaffolder armed with the relevant manufactures handbook not be considered "competent" to erect a system scaffold in accordance with the manufactures specifications ?

Answers be email to NASC/CITB
__________________
Had my Frogs since they were Tadpoles
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
aom's Avatar
aom aom is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 14,619
Thanks: 6,138
Thanked 5,872 Times in 4,179 Posts
Default

The problem with the "Competent Person" thing is that it's all sweetness and light as long as nothing goes wrong, but if the worst was to happen it gives the executive another stick to beat us over the head with. I scincerely believe that is why most of their legislation is so vague, so no matter the circumstance they can drag you through the courts. I did a supervisors course a few years back and to cut a long story short, operative using power saw all ppe and ticket taped to his hat, hse on site no problem, brand new disc snaps in a million bits cuts the guy, now your getting dragged through the court. Basically, no I don't think experienced guy's should need a daft 2 day system course, but will the ones who got their tickets the old way be going, probably.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
Podger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 513
Thanks: 138
Thanked 351 Times in 197 Posts
Default

I agree the HSE definition of a "Competent Person" can be a bit vague and often contradictory the following is from HSE website.


Competence and supervision issues

* All employees should be competent (or in the case of trainees, supervised by a competent person) for the type of scaffolding work they are undertaking and should have received appropriate training relevant to the type and form of scaffolding they are working on.
* Employers must provide appropriate levels of supervision taking into account the complexity of the work and the levels of training and competence of the scaffolders involved.
* As a minimum requirement, every scaffold gang should contain an appropriately qualified scaffolder for the type and complexity of the scaffold to be erected, altered or dismantled. This may be an individual who has received training under an industry recognised training scheme, e.g. CISRS, and has been awarded the scaffolder card or someone who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme, to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
* Trainee scaffolders should always work under the direct supervision of a qualified scaffolder (i.e. a working foreman). Scaffolders are classed as 'trainees' until they have completed the approved training and assessment required to be deemed qualified.
* Erection, alteration and dismantling of complex designed scaffolding (e.g. suspended scaffolds, shoring, temporary roofs etc) should be done under the direct supervision of a competent person. This may be a qualified Advanced scaffolder, a design engineer providing they possess the necessary industry experience or alternatively an individual who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
__________________
Had my Frogs since they were Tadpoles
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
aom's Avatar
aom aom is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 14,619
Thanks: 6,138
Thanked 5,872 Times in 4,179 Posts
Default

mmm, I still think it's open to interpretation. I know they have to be carefully worded but there seems to be quite a bit of room for them to manoeuvre. Maybe I'm reading far too much in to it, has any body actually sent experienced scaffs on such a course or attended one. More importantly, did you learn anything.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
Podger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 513
Thanks: 138
Thanked 351 Times in 197 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Podger View Post
I agree the HSE definition of a "Competent Person" can be a bit vague and often contradictory the following is from HSE website.


Competence and supervision issues

* All employees should be competent (or in the case of trainees, supervised by a competent person) for the type of scaffolding work they are undertaking and should have received appropriate training relevant to the type and form of scaffolding they are working on.
* Employers must provide appropriate levels of supervision taking into account the complexity of the work and the levels of training and competence of the scaffolders involved.
* As a minimum requirement, every scaffold gang should contain an appropriately qualified scaffolder for the type and complexity of the scaffold to be erected, altered or dismantled. This may be an individual who has received training under an industry recognised training scheme, e.g. CISRS, and has been awarded the scaffolder card or someone who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme, to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
* Trainee scaffolders should always work under the direct supervision of a qualified scaffolder (i.e. a working foreman). Scaffolders are classed as 'trainees' until they have completed the approved training and assessment required to be deemed qualified.
* Erection, alteration and dismantling of complex designed scaffolding (e.g. suspended scaffolds, shoring, temporary roofs etc) should be done under the direct supervision of a competent person. This may be a qualified Advanced scaffolder, a design engineer providing they possess the necessary industry experience or alternatively an individual who has received training under a recognised manufacturer/supplier scheme to the limit of the configuration(s) involved.
To answer SCAFF38's original question does an Advanced Scaffolder need specific training to erect system scaffold. based on my interpretation of the above HSE guidelines regarding competence Paragraph 1 would indicate YES whereas Paragraph 3 would indicate NO
__________________
Had my Frogs since they were Tadpoles
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
Collo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stoke-on Trent
Posts: 212
Thanks: 80
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default

I think this one will be dictated by major contractors i.e. "you're not erecting that on my site without your ticket"
__________________
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 28th March 2010
aom's Avatar
aom aom is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 14,619
Thanks: 6,138
Thanked 5,872 Times in 4,179 Posts
Default

Sadly, that's exactly how this will be decided.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
advanced, scaffolders, system, training

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Forum Sponsors
BuyBrandTools.Com Tubular Techniques Ltd - Scaffold Design and Appraisals
SMART Scaffolder - Software Solutions For Scaffolding Professionals Forefront Scaffold Solutions
One Insurance Solution - Scaffolders Insurance Quick Fix Scaffolding Limited
BuyBrandTools.Com Scaffolding Local - Find Your Local Scaffolding Company
Advertise On The Scaffolders Forum Advertise On The Scaffolders Forum
Advertise On The Scaffolders Forum Advertise On The Scaffolders Forum

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright - Scaffolders Forum